BDM Niederlande

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Obergebiet Mitte, USA
The male finally has a mate. :001_smile:

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Rare find Kevin , alot of money on these two .
 
I hope in the new year someone will finaly clear up (for me anyway) as to why the makers number is printed on (or incorperated into) this RZM tag? this is something that has always bugged me. Seeing as they were made by the RZM, and then supplied by the RZM to the individual makers, i can understand why a few makers could have their own "personalized" RZM tags and the rest had the normal RZM tag where they needed to stamp their individual License number on?? ? I have not been able to find reference to "personalized" tags/lables in any RZM paper yet. If i collected these items, this would be a major problem for me. So major that i would not want to touch any item that shows a tag like this until i found a plausible explanation.
 
Joe there seems to be many who had their numbered printed in and as the tag makers had an RZM number the coy may have had options when ordering tags. I see no problem here whatsoever . and what is your new icon ?


:canada1
 
Paul, i cant find any reference at all to makers having a "special" pre-ordered tag with their individual number on it. Clear is that makers did not make their own tags, so "if" the RZM did supply certain makers with their own pre-numbered tags, i would like to find a reference to this. Yes there are a few numbers that are pre-stamped. I dont know about the item of course but being as i am, if i collected these, i would want to know why some are individually numbered, as it just does not make any sense to me, and like i said, is not mentioned as far as i can see. I know that nobody else has a problem with them, and i was told that they are also shown like this in new reference books, but i would. I dont like to have or collect something that i cant explain, especially something like this. I am also surprised why collectors just accept this, imho very weird thing without wanting to know why.

We know that the RZM issued them and posted them to makers, we also know that makers could not make their own, we also know that there was a space for the maker to stamp/add his own RZM license..self explanatory really seeing as they were bulk produced for all makers of the same item, so why are a few individually tailor made and the rest not? This is not something that i would just accept as "Oh it must have happened because everyone else is happy with them" i would be wanting to know exactly why this happened! But i dont collect cloth, and i dont care really about the items, i would just like to know why this happened with a few makers, why were they so special that the RZM made Custom Lables for only them? and the rest got the standart "Fill-it-in-yourself-lables" ?

The avatar? If you were a punk in the 70s you would know what it is :001_cool: Holiday in Cambodia ...
 
I can not see why there should even be a reference for this service


:canada1
Paul, its simple really, we know how the RZM lables "should look" and we know why. These Pre-printed, or customized RZM labels, IMO, have to be considered as Fake post war inventions UNTIL an explanation can be found. They dont fit into the RZM norm, and Just brushing something as important as this off is not something i could do. If this ever happened, that certain makers had the opportunity to order custom labels, and as you said, there are a few makers numbers known that are per-printed, then there will be mention of it, and there is not as far as i can see.

So when you, and others i guess, say that its not serious and you see no reason why there should be any rule or mention, i would look at it the other way around and say that IF this ever happened, there has to be a mention of it, otherwise, it is just so obscure that it cant be true. So from my point of view, i cant accept any "Customized" RZM label until i know why. If the RZM papers went though such great detail in describing, picturing etc labels in their announcements, which they did, and informing makers how they can order, how they must pay, and how that they are not allowed to order labels then send them back etc etc, which they did, you can read about this in the RZM papers more than once, then IF, the time ever came where the RZM offered Customized labels to certain makers, this MUST, be mentioned. To brush this aside is and just shrug it off, is not something that can be done. This is how-come the hobby is ruined, because of too many things like this where people dont care and would rather just go with the flow without using common sense, and looking for the facts.

I believe that Wim Saris might be able to help here a bit more and offer some kind of explanation, but we will see, maybe its a question that should not be asked? otherwise it casts doubt on 100000x items that have come to be accepted as OK. I personally dont see it as a strange question at all, if others can debate Faked RZM labels and what the material should look like etc etc, then surely this question should also be allowed? Who can offer an explanation? instead of just saying "Shut up and believe" ? OK, i know nobody said shut up and believe, but every time i asked this question, this is the feeling i get back from collectors. I hope you can see why i cant buy it... This is a RZM product, we have pictures of what it was, and rules, and all of a sudden, at some stage, special Customized labels turn up on items? and its not strange? its not something that requires and answer? i see the opposite.

Now, for those of you who will reply.. "Post war invention my arse.." by all means post that, but at the same time offer me your proof as to when this happened, why this happened, and why only certain makers recieved customized lables and not others :closedeyes:

The avatar is the logo for the San Fransico Bay area punk rock band The Dead Kennedys.
:thumb:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UW8UlY8eXCk
 
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check the print quality of the orange coloring also compared with other tags that has a maker number printed

could be a perfectly good reason or....?

would like to see someone do a good book on the RZM!

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here is a tag at the guild that i like, look at the font of Reichszeugmeisterei der NSDAP on it, as it should be?

the Ost Gouvernement triangles looks like a different font variation again

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