Printed Hitler Youth (and BdM, JM and DJ) flags and insignia

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just a question post,..
-did the third reich/BDM/HJ/DJ print any type of insignia?
-is a printed flag/insignia on a flag considered a total fake?
 
actually my reference would be the various volksturm armbands
...of which most are fake :) Paul, the question related to: did the third reich/BDM/HJ/DJ print any type of insignia?
Not the aged, decrepid and crippled Volkssturm :)
 
Personally I've not seen period evidence of printed youth related flags, but I've not seen everything by any means. I like multi piece versions.
 
Personally I've not seen period evidence of printed youth related flags, but I've not seen everything by any means. I like multi piece versions.
on page 3,4,5 of the Richter catalog, all the flags are described as multi-piece, and embroidered. the only "choices" a buyer had was the basic material, in variations:
Indanthren Gefärbtem Bauwollstoff (Indanthen Baumwolle)
" " " " " Reinwollenem Marinetuch
" " " " " Reinwollenem Fahnenrips
Wollflaggentuch

Thats just one flag manufacturer though, in the early 30s...
 
Indeed.

Printed flags - avoid.

Printed armbands: yes, they existed as Jo has shown, but only in the very early period. In addition to Jo's link the wiki page is also worth reading: printed hj armband
 
What is very early? Printed HJ-armbands (and SA for example) lasted at least until 1934 or even 1935.
In price-list 22 from the concern of Karl Winkler from Dresden four armbands were mentioned:
article-number 634 with printed swastika, the edges not sewn (RM 0.07);
article-number 635 ibid, but edges sewn (RM 0.095);
article-number 636 with sewn on ribbed swastika and white stripes (RM 0.185);
article-number 637 for the greatcoat. These must have been from heavier material as they were the highest in price (RM 0.19).

For armbands, bike-pennants and flags middle-parts were available in the printed version.
Printed flags for the HJ were not mentioned, as for the DAF (this was especially mentioned for example by Fahnen-Fleck).
In a price-list from about 1935 from Fahnen-Fleck no HJ flags are included that were printed.
Only woolen flags for labor service-camps (NSAD) were available in the chemically printed version.

During the war many flags were printed in my home-town Helmond by the concern Fentener van Vlissingen & Co's Katoendrukkerijen ,
who made lots of Reichskriegsflagge-versions. They also printed the political swastika armband, but about HJ nothing is known.
The concern denies even the SA armbands. From a collegue-researcher I know they must have printed Deutsche Wehrmacht and others as well.

I got the information from the Karl Winkler concern (and Fleck) just a short while ago.
 
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I consider "very early" to be the couple of years immediately following Hitler's appointment as chancellor in 1933 - this being the period when uniforms and equipment were standardised and in which RZM control of manufacturing, and therefore general uniformity, began to bite. A multi-part HJ flag with printed roundel is not a printed flag i.e. it is not a single piece of material with the design of the HJ flag printed onto it. Just wanted to make clear what I meant.
 
Excellent post Wim. I have never seen a 100% printed (not including examples with a separate center with printed insignia) H.J. pennant or flag I personally would spend money on in my experience.
 
Do not misunderstand me: the seperate middle-parts were the swastika symbol
upon white (as in use for the SA-armband). Nothing is said about any printed
stuff for the HJ, other then the earlier mentioned armband (post 10).
These round seperate discs with printed swastika were available in the sizes 10.0 cm
(for armbands and bike pennants), 15.0 cm (for cars), 20.0 cm(for a flag 25.0 x 35.0 cm),
35.0 cm (for a flag 40 x 55 cm)and 50.0 cm (for a flag 60.0 x 80.0 cm).
Unit flags were not mentioned to be the printed form.
 
great education thanks this simple question has blossomed into one of the better threads we have had in some time thanks all for the great info backed up with written evidence which cannot be denied . I see flags made of linen in my collection which can be classified being silk screened , to me printed is an ink transfer to a paper like material would this be correct :canada1
 
@Garry & Wim, yes i would also consider "early" to be the first 10 years or so, up until 1934-1935. And not the last 10 years (1935-1945), or the very end of these years as many like to say, 1944-1945 - Late War.
I dont think i have ever seen a fully screen printed HJ flag at all, pendant or unit or otherwise....
 
What a difference a period of about nine months can make for an armband:

In the official uniform-regulation from the Reichsjugendführung from January 15, 1934 (Bekleidung und Ausrüstung der HJ,
Amtliche Bekleidungsvorschrift der RJF der NSDAP
) on page 81 about the HJ-Armbinde it is noted with the manufacturing-regulation:
the armband is in three parts, red-white-red with a black swastika upon a white field. The red and black (swastika) are printed (aufgedruckt).
The armband is mentioned to be from cotton. The wearing of armbands from cloth, which is a woolish material, was not allowed.
So, in its beginnings official armbands were the printed version.

Nine months later: Mitteilungsblatt der Reichszeugmeisterei, number 26 from November 24, 1934 a new regulation about the manufacturing of the
HJ-armband was published on page 5:
Material cotton, three parts (red-white-red) with a black swastika upon a white field. The white stripes, white field and black swastika are sewn on.
The manufacturing of printed cloth and flannel armbands for the HJ was not allowed (Die Anfertigung von gedruckten Armbinden für die HJ ist verboten).
So, since late 1945/early 1935 the new armbands were the sewn version.

The same was ordered for the SA and political leaders. For them a cotton (Fahnen-Cretonne) or woolish (Original-Spiegeltuch) armband were in force!
 
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In the official uniform-regulation from the Reichsjugendführung from January 15, 1934
Wim, about 2 years ago on here there was a thread and this was mentioned. This is what made me look in the past for an indication of printed HJ armbands, instead of in the future around 1944-45 like most were saying. I interpreted their saying that printed armbands were forbidden to mean that by then there must have already been some by 1934, otherwise why mention an item that has not been made or sold yet.
 
What happened two years ago, is a long time ago. I can't remember, but I checked the Mbl.RZM information.
The printed armbands were not mentioned anymore in later years (the war).

What was said in September 1944 in the Mbl.d.RZM was that the cloth needed for flags and armbands was not
available while no raw materials were availabe (Gewebe zur Herstellung von Fahnen, Flaggen, Armbinden
können auf weiteres nicht mehr zugeteilt werden, da für sogenannte Artikel keine Rohstoffe zur Verfügung
gestellt werden können
). The subject was not returned anymore!
 
Great information as always Wim. This thread puts to rest many rumors and much "collector lore" and assumption in my opinion. Excellent work gentlemen.
 
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