BDM JM Bluse

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Hi everyone,

For those who are interested: my mate has a very nice BDM-JM bluse on his new update. I had these items for hand inspection and they are really nice and pristine! Flanders Militaria



Regards, Wim :)
 
Mmm... Don't see a BDM/JM Bluse there :)
There`s lots of this pink-tagged clobber - mint - turning up on Dutch sites recently, i wish i had saved a few images i have seen over the past few months... will try and have a think where i`ve seen more, this week as well on some site... hmmmm
 
Well, he's offering a HJ shirt with a BDM/JM tag Wim. He clearly doesn't have a clue what he's selling.

Edit: the item you linked to in your last post is at least a female item. I'd have to check whether the tag should say 'Fahrtenbluse' but it's certainly more 'right' than what your friend is offering.
 
Yep,

You're right Garry.
I've took a quick look at the site.
Seems to me he picked up (don't want to accuse the guy of having put something together himself) a HJ blouse, without the original buttons and somebody tagged the shirt with a BDM/JM blouse tag and added the BDM/JM buttons.:thumbdown:

What troubles me is the fact that on his home page he proclames he has 40 years of experience as a collector.:confused1:
Or the guy is blind, deaf and ignorant at the same time or he is one of the biggest husslers around these days.:sneaky2:

A pity for people, who starts to collect and rely on those so called experts to give them hints and advice.

This shows one more time that trying to get your hands on documentation is crucial in order not to get ripped of by those dealers.

:belgium
Wizardelf
 
came from one of the latest German fairs as left over stock.
Hi Wim. Maybe it`s part of the recent "Pink-Tag Hoard" .. I haven't heard about this find yet, but it does seem to make sense, especially if they come from German dealers, and more so if they come from dealers at fairs! :noidea:
 
A pity for people, who starts to collect and rely on those so called experts to give them hints and advice.
Nee, i used to think like this as well, but the collector is to blame really, if he does not want to first learn history and let a Dealer tell him history instead of paying for books and time to research, then the dealer is only doing what he needs to to feed his kids and fill the Porsche.

Follow me? If you continually tell me that i am the Jesus of badges, after a few decades i will probably believe this myself too, and so i wont actually be defrauding anyone as such when i sell crap, with wrong descriptions, my head will simply have gotten too large for my shoulders, and i would really believe in the crap that i am selling because the collector has financed my crap-selling for so long - we cant be wrong...not all of us.. not dealer and collectors? After all, i have gotten away with it since 1969... why all the fuss now hey? c`mon, BDM, JM, HJ, DJ or BJ...whats the difference...if it looks old, buy it!
 
You're absolutely right.:clap2:
That's why I stated in my earlier posting, but not in as so many words;
It is better to invest and buy some books, take some time and do research on the net, look at old pictures, and
Last but not least become a member of a forum like this one,
where a lot of members share their personal experience and HONEST opinion.:good:

This way with the Info you've gathered you should be able to do some decent purchases, but no garantees what so ever.
Everybody steps from time to time in a minefield and can take a wrong decision.
With the quality of fakes all the time improving it is getting harder and harder to detect the real gems especially as one tries to get his items in the best ever quality possible.
:belgium
Wizardelf
 
Maybe this hole "Pink Hoard" German-fair left-over thing is a hoax? and the HJ jacket with tag and BDM buttons is a complete fake from start to finish?

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Who will tell?
Unless one steps forward and admits, that this is the result of his imagination, we will never know for sure, how this piece became what is seen now today.
I just want to add the following; between the tags (the one on the BDM grey travel blouse is in fact mine, the blouse was bought with the tag attached to it, so not added by me and was bought I think now already about two years ago, it came not from germany, but from a collector in the US, I should need to look in my files to know who it was) are a few differences, wich on itself doesn't rule anything out, off course.
First the lettering on mine is not pink, but a red wich has faded overtime slightly, and second the lettertype is different. Furthermore the code from the manufacterer has been applied with another ink (faded black).

But Garry, should you come across some references, I'm curious to know if in fact on this grey blouse the tag should read indeed BDM/JM fahrtenbluse?
:belgium
Wizardelf
 
This reminds me of that Butschek DJ cap episode with added badge... hard to call, judge, place, respond to, when things like this are caught on peoples sites who most believe are better than the rest... the initial reaction is to protect the actual seller based on the reputation he has gained by selling lots of good stuff.. and blame the next man down the line ... who he got it from...who has of course long gone home and nobody knows who it was.
What i think adds insult to injury on this item, is the description as well. The logical explanation is of course that he copied the description from the person he got it from, or was told what it was, and couldn't even be prepared to take a look if it was in fact even that item at all.... so if that was the "honest" explanation, it shows you the knowledge level of certain old time dealers with these 20-30-40 years of experience.

On the good sites, and there are a few out there, where fakes are seldom seen at all, you never read i "I have 50 years of experience" as the sales pitch intro, But on the sites that have fakes on, you mostly do...
It`s no big deal really, only €350.-, but does show you how dealers are prepared to operate, either full out BS stories, or copy and paste the item description from the previous guy... Now, if there was a green HJ diamond on that.. i would be tempted. I dont know how to tell if it`s pre 1945 just by looking at a few images, but maybe there will be someone who can? Looks brand new to me ... eben, lagergut :pound:
 
But Garry, should you come across some references, I'm curious to know if in fact on this grey blouse the tag should read indeed BDM/JM fahrtenbluse?
:belgium
Wizardelf

Just looking at this now. The introduction of the Fahrtenbluse was discussed at a conference of the Obergau leaders in autumn 1934 and its introduction was announced on the 20th of June 1935. The 1936 RZM regulations show a completely different label to the one on your Bluse and the one on that HJ shirt so they must be later versions (post 1936). Perhaps the UM will provide some more info. I'll go through them now.
 
Now don't be to hard for the dealer this time. I know him as an honest man. Keep in mind that, besides making money, they also have the difficult task to know everything about the things they sell. An that in fact is impossible. When pickers stop with the cars and open doors they sometimes have to make quick buys in a few minutes or the items are gone to the one who snapped them just that second earlier.
Of course there are many people here who can see which HJ award is good and which is wrong but are not capable to buy something from the combat award series simply because they cant tell what's original and what's wrong. But from dealers we expect they now it all in details.

Like I know the man he takes items back when they turned out as being fake.


Regards, Wim :closedeyes:
 
Now don't be to hard for the dealer this time. I know him as an honest man. Keep in mind that, besides making money, they also have the difficult task to know everything about the things they sell. An that in fact is impossible. When pickers stop with the cars and open doors they sometimes have to make quick buys in a few minutes or the items are gone to the one who snapped them just that second earlier.
Of course there are many people here who can see which HJ award is good and which is wrong but are not capable to buy something from the combat award series simply because they cant tell what's original and what's wrong. But from dealers we expect they now it all in details.

Like I know the man he takes items back when they turned out as being fake.


Regards, Wim :closedeyes:

I agree Wim, And it is this way of dealing, and then re-selling, that the HJ forum is trying to combat.
It proves one thing only, that Dealers (no matter if its your friend, or a friend of mine or others) are still prepared to blindly copy and paste any old description ointo their items, WITHOUT lifting a finger to see if its actually what it claims to be. This Bluse, is the same as listing a SA dagger, and writing that it was a HJ honor dagger.... Bad! Many do it, in fact probably all... Sure they need to live from the sales, it is their JOB, but surely it would be great to just Google an item to see:


  1. [*=2]What is it?
    [*=2]Do i have a fake?
    [*=2]Are there even fakes of this item?
    [*=2]Is the item even a fantasy?
    [*=2]What do collectors say about these items?
    [*=2] Are there forum threads about it?
    [*=2]Is it, what i am saying it is?

Research a small bit, only 10 minutes, and that would be enough.
It does not mean the dealers are crooks, or not honest, it is just the Old, LAZY way of selling that many collectors of the 21st century are getting pissed off with, so even though the dealer may just have made a silly, mistake, and be 100% the best guy around, it is still going to attract negative attention to him today.

It is CUSTOMER SATISFACTION in the end, so stupid mistakes like this seems to be, should not be accepted from a guy with 40 years exp. But they have been, from all dealers, from 1946 to now... but something must change in order for us to progress!
 
Hi everyone,

I have contacted him and informed him of the doubts concerning these blouses. The original source seems to be Austrian.

Regards, Wim :001_smile:
 
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