BDM shirts (Bluse and Fahrtenbluse) "GRAY and WHITE" ... Opinions wanted.

Joe B

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I just bought 2 BDM shirts , one gray for traveling and one regular white . I am seeking opinions and information on the materials used in the construction of BDM shirts , I know that they were made of cotton poplin on linen . Look at the photos and let me know what you think . I have studied HJ/DJ shirts for 20 years but only have limited knowledge with BDM/JM shirts . I do have a return privledge just in case .

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These match the blouses pictured in the 1936 manufacturing instructions Joe. The normal BDM blouse was made of Popeline (tight weave) cotton and the Fahrtenbluse was made of silver-grey Trikot-Köper. The cloth of the white Bluse has a particular pattern in the weave due to the technique used (Natté, Panamabindung).
 
Thanks Garry , do you know if there was a winter BDM shirt made of a heaver cotton type material ?
 
Hi Joe,

There is no mention of thicker material for a winter version of the BDM and JM blouses. The earlier version of the BDM/JM blouse (with flap pockets) came in a short and long-sleeve version for winter and summer but this type was discontinued from August 1935 and replaced by your type. BDM and JM members were permitted to continue wearing the old type until they wore out but a little over a year later in December 1936 an order was issued that banned the long-sleeve version. The conclusion must be that the second type of blouse (your type) did indeed only come in a short-sleeve version. As I say, the RZM manufacturing instructions support that assumption as they state that both the normal blouse and the Fahrtenbluse only came in short-sleeve versions.
 
Yes Franz Furth , I made him an offer of 500 dollars for both shirts and he took it . Expensive yes , however for every 20 HJ shirts you see you may only find 1 BDM shirt .
hey Joe, were these from Franz? i have no idea on your questions sorry!

@ garry is the ones your looking not got the bottom row of buttons aswell mate?
 
They gray travel blouse is used and I will attach a Gebiet triangle , the white blouse is unissued so I may just leave it as is .

cant grumble there Joe as you say they dont turn up often atall !

will you restore insignia to them or just display under a kletterweste?

atb
 
Hi Joe,

There is no mention of thicker material for a winter version of the BDM and JM blouses. The earlier version of the BDM/JM blouse (with flap pockets) came in a short and long-sleeve version for winter and summer but this type was discontinued from August 1935 and replaced by your type. BDM and JM members were permitted to continue wearing the old type until they wore out but a little over a year later in December 1936 an order was issued that banned the long-sleeve version. The conclusion must be that the second type of blouse (your type) did indeed only come in a short-sleeve version. As I say, the RZM manufacturing instructions support that assumption as they state that both the normal blouse and the Fahrtenbluse only came in short-sleeve versions.

Garry.
I came across a long sleeved JM blouse with flap pockets.
What is your source? (Which prooves that before 1936 this blouse was legit?)

Also.. I read -not long ago- that BDM fuhrerinnen for JM also wore JM type blouses, the same as the little girl's of their group.
Does anyone have a period source for that?

Regards Werner
 
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Someone told me that this is not "textbook" , but according to your source it is "textbook" pre 1936?
Think this particular blouse was for a JM führerin.
A year ago this blouse was sold in combination with a JM rock (with inktstamp which said the stoff was for BDM führerinnen, which I think was a legit stamp)

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Hi Werner,

regarding posts 11 and 12 above here is a short chronology for the BDM and JM Blusen:

1933:

  1. Initially the BDM and JM wore the same white blouse of which there were two types: winter with long sleeves and summer with short sleeves. This blouse had one chest pocket (wearer's left side) secured by a single button. Source: introduction of a standardised uniform for BDM and JM - Verordnungsblatt der RJF 14 dated 30.08.1933 (see attachment 1 below).
  2. Verordnungsblatt der RJF 49 dated 10.10.1933 (attachment 2 below) introduced a change to the JM version which added eight "perlmutt" buttons to the hem for attachment to the skirt in place of a belt. The skirt for the JM was changed at this point too of course and received eight buttonholes. With that, the JM no longer wore belts.
  3. "Die Uniformen der HJ" from 1933 (attachment 3 below - from the 1934 pamphlet but the same picture as the 1933 version) shows the new version of JM skirt and blouse mentioned in point 2 above but the BDM and JM girls are depicted wearing blouses with two chest pockets each with flaps secured by a single button instead of the type mentioned in point 1 above. I don't see this change to two chest pockets in the regulations but clearly it happened.

1935:
  1. Verordnungsblatt der RJF III/29 dated 15.8.1935 (see attachment 4 below) removed the flaps and single button from the chest pockets on both the BDM and JM blouses. On the new blouse the two chest pockets were secured using two white regulation BDM buttons into vertical buttonholes. The old type of blouse was permitted for wear until stocks were depleted.

1936:
  1. Reichsbefehl RJF 39/1 dated 6.11.1936 discontinued the long-sleeved blouse.


1943:
  1. from April the material for both the BDM and JM blouse was changed to silver/grey and the chest pocket buttons were removed. Additionally, on the JM version two of the hem buttons (for attachment to the skirt) were removed. I saw this change in a HJ Gebietsbefehl and will post a scan once I've found it again.




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Wow Garry! Many thanks. This is the information was looking for, to support this blouse was made according regulations from 1933! (Only this one has 2 big buttons and 1 smal at the back and not 4 (as should be "normal")
Love the picture to attached with the painted (jung)madels.
I looked for that one online, but only found the ones with the short sleeved.

Again...thanks!
 
No probs. Glad to help :) The picture of the girls is a quick collage of scans from "Die Uniformen der HJ" (2. Auflage 1934) but the same images were also used in the first edition from 1933.
 
hey garry! not a big expert on bdm but i believe they wore a greatcoat in the early years. do you have any idea of what they wore in winter in the later years if they did not have thicker materials?
 
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