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  1. #11

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    Joe tell me where I can find one at that price and I will buy it this month

  2. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Albrecht View Post
    They are more bronze than gold.

    Then I should take off all insignias of the shirt and restore new one?
    Been staring at various period sources from 1935 to 1942 for the last two hours and the more you look the more confusing it becomes :)

    There are three types of shirt mentioned :

    The HJ-Köperbluse
    The Diensthemd
    The Dienstbluse

    Your shirt corresponds to the HJ-Köperbluse introduced in 1935 (elongated collar). On these, silver belt hooks designated those working on the Gebietsstab (Bannführer rank and higher) whereas gold hooks were for RJF-Stab members of Bannführer rank and higher1

    There are three colours of belt hook for the HJ/DJ Köperbluse in 19362: grey, silver and gold and that these were rank-related (...je nach dem Rang grau, weiß oder gelb..). We know what silver and gold meant so grey belt hooks must be those used on the shirts authorised for wear by all others including those HJ and DJ with no rank.

    In a 1938 clothing regulation3 the 'Köperbluse' is no longer mentioned. The short shirt is now known as Dienstbluse and the style is more like the SA Bluse with the shorter collar. The reference states that the belt hooks were to be 'of the same colour as the embroidery of the shoulder boards'. That would correspond then to Silver for the rank range HJ-Stammführer to HJ-Hauptbannführer and gold for HJ-Gebietsführer to Stabsführer.

    I've looked at quite a few sources ranging from 1935 to 1940 and and it is clear that the blouse shirt was permitted for wear by all HJ and DJ members regardless of rank with the distinction between the ranks being shown by the use of belt hook colours.


    ____________________

    1 RZM newsletter issue 27 12th of October 1935

    2
    RZM manufacturing instructions 1936 p65

    3 Vorschriftenhandbuch der Hitlerjugend Band II 1942

  3. #13
    I don't have them so could someone who owns the Angolia etc books stick a couple of excerpts or a scan up please? I'd be interested to see what they say about this shirt.

  4. #14
    Off to work Garry, but if nobody does it by the time I get home this evening I'll put some scans up.

  5. #15
    Thanks Darin

  6. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by Garry View Post
    I've looked at quite a few sources ranging from 1935 to 1940 and and it is clear that the blouse shirt was permitted for wear by all HJ and DJ members regardless of rank with the distinction between the ranks being shown by the use of belt hook colours.
    Then I understand the shirt is ok? Just need to change the belt hooks?

  7. #17
    Well, if it were my shirt I wouldn't change the belt hooks. With gold belt hooks the shirt is worth more than one with grey or silver hooks and I don't know what you paid for it but perhaps you could sell it on, make a small profit, buy one with grey belthooks and then build your musician using the profit for badges, shoulder straps or a lanyard etc.

    Alternatively of course you could go completely the other way and build a Gebietsführer

  8. #18

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    Thank you Garry!

    How is a restoration I alwais can take off the insignias what are hand sew. For the moment will stay how its now. The shirt anyway I think is too little for a Gebietsführer. The belthooks are RZM marqued and they are gold, but I am sure this shirt never was used for hig grade. Its possible even the belthooks are not strictly HJ if not they can be even NSDAP ones. I think they used what they had.

  9. #19
    Here is a scan from Angolias Vol 1 from the section dealing with the Koperbluse.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  10. #20
    Thanks very much Darin


    Quote Originally Posted by Albrecht View Post
    Thank you Garry!

    How is a restoration I alwais can take off the insignias what are hand sew. For the moment will stay how its now. The shirt anyway I think is too little for a Gebietsführer. The belthooks are RZM marqued and they are gold, but I am sure this shirt never was used for hig grade. Its possible even the belthooks are not strictly HJ if not they can be even NSDAP ones. I think they used what they had.
    No problem Albrecht. As long as you're happy with the end result Albrecht that's cool

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