Results 1 to 9 of 9
  1. #1

    Please login to view user info

    Scarf knot?

    Hi,

    I had a quick question, and I hope the forum can help answer it.

    I made a recent purchase. This from a very trusted dealer in a lot of varied sources.

    It is purported to be an HJ scarf knot. it is made of leather, and appears to be correct configuration of the authentic ones I have seen, but what troubles me is that is in black. All the ones I have seen in pictures of the time have been in natural leather color.
    Could it be for a BDM uniform? Or did the HJ have black scarf knots as well as natural colored ones?

    I have already made the purchase, so if it is found to be inauthentic, it will be disappointing, but the cost of it will not 'change my lifestyle' as they say.

    Thanks for your input!

    -Craig

    N038572full.jpg


  2. #2
    Hi Craig,

    When these were new they were light-brown and they became darker with use. Regulations from 1934 right up to 1943 repeat that colour so we can safely assume that a black toggle cannot be "Hitler Youth". The colour of the leather on the HJ belt and cross-strap was changed from brown to black from 1.1.1937 but toggles were exempt from this so there's no avenue to explore there either. As you'll know, toggles of this type were used before and after the HJ period so difficult to say who may have worn yours.

  3. #3

    Please login to view user info
    Hi Gary,

    I will see what the condition is of the knot upon arrival and be able to see if it has darkened with use, wear and time, or die.

    I'll update with pics when it arrives!

    -Craig

  4. #4
    Okay Craig. Looking forward to the pics

  5. #5

    Please login to view user info
    Hi all,

    The scarf knot has arrived and, to be completely honest, it appears to be a VERY dark brown, very close to black. On the outer areas, and from what I can tell, the inner area as well. Which makes me believe the color to be due to die, not from use.

    The construction of the knot is identical to HJ knots I have seen in all the photo research I have conducted, although I have yet to hold an authentic one in my hand to compare it with. So, given the information provided from Gary, it appears that it held a scarf, but not an 'HJ' scarf.

    So as an HJ collector, this is disappointing, but facts are facts. And if the German National Socialists were anything, they were heavily guided by their regulations.

    So unless some information is discovered that would explain the black color, it falls in the 'fake' category.

    Just for my own curiosity, I would appreciate any other members with good photos of their authentic knots to please post them in this thread, just for more information on what to look for when trying to track down an authentic one.

    (I will add updated pictures of the knot I received tomorrow, as I rely on sunlight for the best pictures. The photos that I supplied at the beginning of the thread are the ones provided by the dealer. But, they are representative of the item I received.)

    Again, as I am always on the lookout for an authentic knot, so I request that anyone with authentic ones please post some nice photo's, just for my info! Thanks!!!

    - Craig

  6. #6

    Please login to view user info
    Ok, I managed to take some quick shots of the knot inside. Not as good as natural light, but thought i would share anyway.

    So, my forum friends, what do you think?

    Just another scarf knot? Or possible HJ?

    I appreciate your input!

    IMG_5298.jpgIMG_5299.jpgIMG_5300.jpg

  7. #7

    Please login to view user info
    I'm sorry to say, but I doubt this is a real period knot.
    The problem is that you can easily make these knots yourself (see for instance: ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jOlbkSbbaSc )
    Or even better, buy them for less that 3 euros ( https://www.seegler-outdoor.de/pfadf...lbraun/a-1169/ )

    If you want to play safe, it best to buy one like the one below. In my experience these are the only ones you can be pretty sure of that they are ok.

    25_-1121259185.jpg

  8. #8

    Please login to view user info
    Craig,
    to be 100 % sure you should go for a RZM stamped one, nothing less.
    Otherwise it might be a Scout scarf knot from the 1930's or the 1950's which look exactly the same.
    The same goes for scarfs. Some organisations in the 1920's and 1930's did wear black scarfs.
    After the war a singel coloured black scarf was uncommon but the size and structure was still the same.
    So also for a scarf I would only go for a RZM one. Despite any vet story.
    Otherwise the resell factor is low.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  9. #9

    Please login to view user info
    Thanks all! I had no idea that these things could be RZM stamped. Good to know!

    Like I said, disappointed that this looks to be inauthentic, but it didn't break the bank, and these instances just go with the hobby sometimes.

    Again, thanks to everyone for your participation in the thread!

    -Craig

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

HJ-Research, the Hitler Youth Militaria Collector Forum
Copyright © HJ-Research.com 2009 -
Web Hosting by Vidahost "Hosting for Life"