Deutsches Jungvolk? Shoulderboard with blue piping - What´s this ?

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Hallo, I got a picture from a collection with this DJ shoulderboard on it. It has a blue piping and DJ4 on it. Is it from Afrika (color blue) or from a Feuerwehrschar ? What is it ? Opinions wellcome. Best Regards

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Yes, I have seen it. I think the DJ could mean "Deutsche Jugend" instead of Deutsches
Jungvolk. This is just what comes up in me. If that is correct I don't know, as I do not
know in which countries such "Deutsche Jugend" did exist. I know the existance of a
magazine "Der Pfadfinder", which was named "magazine for the Deutsche Jugend in southwest-
Africa".
The blue so indeed could mean Africa.

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Here a photograph from such group is shown: note the HJ brassard and a triangle.
The photograph shows them waiting for guest from the South-African Union (Deutsche
Jugendgruppe der Union von Südafrika), at Windhuk in about 5-8 July 1934.

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From another photograph I know that numbers were worn upon the shoulder-strap,
but at the moment the photograph was taken, the shoulder-straps were brown. The
number shown was 4. When this number upon the black strap is indeed from Africa
then it possibly was used by the group of "Horst Windhoek".
 

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I can't identify it from the photograph. I know when this flag was shown in front
of about 1,200 boys and girls (this is mentioned). The man who holds the flag is
Erich von Lossnitzer who was send by the German RJF to try to incorporate the
Pfadfinderbund into the HJ. In my opinion the ribbon could have read the abbreviation
SWA or Südwestafrika.
Von Lossnitzer was warned not to use the flag, nor to appear in HJ-uniform. But he did.
On July 10, 1934 von Lossnitzer was expelled from SWA by the magistrate for what he
had tried, but did in fact not succeed.

Due to the intentions to incorporate the Pfadfinder into the HJ at any moment it
was thought the Pfadfinder would be forbidden. For that reason the old Pfadfinder
ceased to exist and a new Pfadfinder-organization was raised May 21, 1935 as
"Deutsche Pfadfinder von Südwestafrika". With these the name "Horst" (literally
translated as "nest for a bird of prey"') was a common and old expression that did
not have anything to do with Horst Wessel, which was thought by the government
in SWA.
From this one knows that the earlier mentioned "Horst Windhoek" were in fact members
from the Pfadfinder. The HJ was organized in a Bann with Gefolgschaften.
 
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Hm, Interesting. On my photos of the Deutsche Pfadfinderbund in Namibia their shoulderboards show no numbers, no letters and none is in blue colour.

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In an article about the Deutsche Pfadfinder in Südwestafrika,a youth-group from
the German Volksgruppe abroad, published in the magazine "Schwert und Spaten"
nr.16 from June 1939, it was mentioned that the "Horst"-groups were to be
recognized by number(s) upon the shoulder-strap (Nummer des Horstes). I know
quite some name of these, but not the number that goes with them.
 
Here are the names for the various "Horste" from the Deutsche Pfadfinder in Südwestafrika:
Windhoek (in fact where the headquarters were located). They had six groups;
Swakopmund;
Lüderitzbucht;
Kolmannskuppe;
Tsumeb;
Grootfontein;
Okahandja;
Omaruru;
Kalkfeld;
Otjiwarongo;
Gobabis;
Keetmanshoop.
 
At this moment it is my opinion the black shoulder-strap may not have been used in SWA,
but in Germany itself.

The reason could be: many boys and girls from SWA were in Germany through the years
to learn a profession. July 16, 1935 they called for a meeting and instituted at Goslar, in Germany,
the "Landmannschaft Südwestafrika". In late 1939 they had about 650 members (boys and girls).

Maybe the youngest did wear the HY-uniform with HY-service with special insignia, as for example
the triangle "ReichsdeutscheJugend Ausland", as was worn also in Germany at the "Jugendhof" at
Rheinsberg in the Kurmark (see my handbook, page 594).

This is only a thought and my personal opinion. What I know is that they did wear the white triangle-
badge with red edge, as used in SWA: "Der Dornen und des Durstes", the badge with the stylized
"Weissdorn" (see included image),
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but the members from the earlier mentioned "Landmannschaft Südwestafrika" did wear this badge
also, but their version did have included the swastika. The badge with swastika was in SWA
forbidden. In most known books the purpose for the version with swastika is wrongly explained.
 

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This is one rare tinnie that you've got there, for sure.
What size is the pictured Weissdorn cloth badge?
All these clothbadges look different, are they different in sizes too?
Mine is only 5 cm on each side.
The metal one in the second and third photo is the one without the swastika.
This is also pictured on the outside of the Huesken Kleinabzeichen Katalog.

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I don't have these badges myself. I have told often I do not collect.
So, I do not know sizes of any of them. 5,0 cm could be a quite
normal size, when looking at them on photographs.
The tinnie is from a collector in South-Africa; the cloth version is
from someone from Namibia.
 
Here the symbol is shown upon the flag: actual and as a drawing.
Further a photograph where various of the photographed persons do
wear a dark (black) shoulder-strap.

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Look at the man right from the flag and the guy next to him, as well as for
example in the first row 5th boy from left and the last one upon right in the
same row. Not quite well visible, but apparently other colored shoulder-straps
were actually in use by the Deutsche Pfadfinder from SWA.
 

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