H.J. Scharfuhrer Bann 911 Shoulder Straps

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This set is up on Hiscol. Price is listed at 275 Euro, hefty for standard red piped and numbered straps. They are a set for a Scharfuhrer from Bann 911. This is an odd one as the Bann is not listed in any reference that I am aware of. Mario speculates that the Bann may have been located in Poland. Pure speculation but possible? The straps certainly appear to be period made RZM examples to me from the photos. I've seen one other set of these in a collection and the owner takes great pride in the fact that the Bann seems to be unattributed by research. What say the members here? Any further information on this Bann 911?

All photos are credited to Hiscol.

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Hi Darin, Bann 911 should Schieratz His / Gebiet 38 (Ost Wartheland)
I think the price is very high.
Best Regards
 
Hi Darin, Bann 911 should Schieratz His / Gebiet 38 (Ost Wartheland)
I think the price is very high.
Best Regards

Hi,

Neither Wim nor I found that Bann when we compiled our lists so it would be a great addition. Do you have a reference showing Bann 911?
 
Okay, Bann 911 Schieratz appears in a fairly comprehensive list to which Steve has access but the compiler entered its status as unconfirmed. It's a very useful clue though and one worth following up on. Thanks Steve!
 
So no evidence besides two pairs of shoulder straps.
Some written information after, but no written evidence before 1945 yet.
An interesting topic. The bann number is easy to remember.
So maybe someone will find a stamped piece of paper one day
or anything else that would confirm Bann 911 to 100%.
 
Just looking into this a little more to see whether it is likely that Schieratz (Polish: Sieradz) could have been Bann 911. From October 1939 Schieratz was part of the administrative district of Kalisch which, in HJ terms, was Bann 665 (Bann Kalisch-Turek). From 1941 Schieratz was part of the administrative district of Litzmannstadt which had two Banne: Bann 663 Litzmannstadt and Bann 664 Litzmannstadt-Land. The distance between Litzmannstadt and Schieratz is only 53km. The distance between Kalisch and Schieratz is 48km so with these distances in mind I feel it very unlikely that the RJF would have authorised the creation of a new Bann to cover Schieratz when there were already three Banne in close proximity. Schieratz will, in my opinion, have been within Bann 664 Litzmannstadt-Land. Edit: I found a reference from 1941 showing that Schieratz was originally within the boundaries of Bann 666 Lask. The wiki page for Kreis Lask shows that it shared a boundary line with Litzmannstadt leaving Schieratz inside Bann 666 territory so it all makes sense.

So, what was Bann 911? I found a newspaper* reference from March 1943 mentioning a sporting event at which the following Banne took part:

Bann Posen
Bann Kalisch
Bann Turek
Bann Litzmannstadt

As you can see, Kalisch and Turek are now separate and no longer combined within Bann 665 Kalisch-Turek. So clearly, a new Bann was created in mid to late-1942 or early 1943 within Gebiet 38 Wartheland to accommodate this split. Was this new unit Bann 911 Turek? Bann 910 is the highest number Bann within Gebiet 38 Wartheland so clearly, 911 was next and at the moment Turek is a very strong candidate for that Bann number.

*Litzmannstädter Zeitung
 
Litzmannstädter Zeitung, 11. October 1942, Reichsgau Wartheland.

"Pabianice
en. Neue Banngeschäftsstelle der Hitler-Jugend.
Nachdem für den Kreis Schieratz der HJ.-Bann 911 ins Leben gerufen wurde, ist die Banngeschäftsstelle des Bannes 666 (Kreis Lask) der HJ. wieder zurück nach Pabianice verlegt worden. Sie befindet sich jetzt Brunnengasse 12."
http://bc.wimbp.lodz.pl/Content/29183/Litzmannstadter Zeitung 1942 kw IV Nr 283.pdf
 
Good work Henrik. I read nearly all copies from that year but decided to switch to 1943 :h I'm surprised that Kreis Schieratz got its own Bann but you nailed it.

If we assume, and I think we can, that Bann 911 took the name of the Kreis then it can now be proven that Bann 911 is indeed Schieratz. Just need to put a number to Bann Turek now and we'll have two new Banne for Gebiet Wartheland.
 
Going back to post #6 and Bann Turek for a moment, another Bann is mentioned that doesn't appear on any lists as yet: Bann Waldrode. It is reported* in July 1942 as being the newest Bann in the Reich. No Bann number is given unfortunately. The list mentioned by Steve further up the page gives Turek as Bann 909 and Waldrode as Bann 907 but the compiler lists them as unconfirmed so hopefully we'll be able to confirm them at some point.

*Litzmannstädter Zeitung for Wednesday the 5th of August 1942.
 
Excellent research gentlemen, the type of thing that elevates this forum above others that merely speculate or use "collector lore". Thank you.
 
He seems very proud of himself doesn't he... Yes, I'd like to see that list but to be honest, as far as 911 is concerned, Steve got it right in post #2. All we needed to do was confirm it - which we did.

Thanks to Steve (Pimpf359), I'm aware that there are 14 Banne in Gebiet 38 Wartheland that appear to have been created around mid-1942 and 911 is one of them. Others are Turek and Waldrode as mentioned previously and I provisionally added all of these Banne to my Bann lists over the last two days. I hope that we can do what we did with 911 and get 100% confirmation for each of them.
 
Here is my new arrival. A single example of the Bann 911 strap.

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