HJ Shoulder Boards, Bann 109 - Fritz Kröber-Karlsruhe ( Süd Baden )

Pimpf359

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Hello,
this beautiful shoulder boards could buy I at the weekend.

Best regards Steve

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hello pimpf 359,
very nice !
I have never see a S-B with a so little number embroid (3).
 
This must be shoulder-straps from before the introduction of the official July 1933-pattern.

Number 109 was mentioned in the Verordnungsblatt der Reichsjugendführung from
May 11, 1933 and existed in the Baden-area. The number 109 is for an Unterbann.
Since July 1933 and later the piping color was yellow. I thought the name Kröber was in
existance since 1938.
 
Have I understood correctly?
109 is the unterbann and is not for Fritz Kröber? For what is then the 3 ?
I thought the stands for the Unterbann!
 
Not according to the May 1933 information. The order specifically mentions
Unterbann.
This is an early shoulder-strap when the name Kröber did not exist yet.
The three may stand for Gefolgschaft 3. I am not quite sure, as I have not
my files around at the moment!
 

Hello,

First time I
hear about numbered Unterbanne !!! Wim, Could you, please, give us more information ?

Best regards





 
as I mentioned, as such it was named in the Verordnungsblatt.
Before the Banne were numbered, they were Unterbann. I thought
it is being mentioned in my book somewhere (see page 182).

Gefolgschaft: see for the color yellow/red for Baden, page 642. Here
also 109 as Unterbann is noted! Baden was at that moment the Bann
and not the Gebiet yet......
 
Untergau / Bann


Hello,

I found in my archives the following informations (I noted all that a long time ago and, unfortunately, without bringing back the source). See picture.

It emerged that the first denomination of the HJ-BANN was (from 1 May 1931 to 5 November 1931) : HJ-UNTERGAU (and not HJ-UNTERBANN). The (new created) denomination HJ-UNTERBANN became at this date (
5 November 1931) the new name of the HJ-BEZIRK.

The BDM subsequently retained this appellation (BDM-UNTERGAU) to designate its regiments.

Best regards


 

Hello,

OK ! now, I understand what you're speaking about. You speak about the attempt to organize the units beetwen May 1933 and August 1933. At this time, it is clear that some Banne are not yet full organised. This will be effective 3 months later, Even if it is only theoretical.

The "Unterbanne" of your list are nothing else than the "Banne" in construction. They receive with this order (May, 11 1933) the autorisation to wear an Alte Armee Regiment's number.

In this list, some Gebiete already carry their final calling. Others are still called Bann (while they are Gebiete). We understand the confusion that prevailed during these few months.

Garry wrote : ...The numbering conventions on very early shoulder straps was quite haphazard with some having no numbers at all where others showed the Gefolgschaft/Schar numbers or indeed the Unterbann number. The organisation was growing very rapidly and control of developments was not what it would later become. As a result of this lack of control, many odd variations and local idiosyncrasies are evident in photographs from this early period.

Best regards
 
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