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  1. #91

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    Yep,
    I saw it, but I'm no expert in this matter, so was not sure if it was genuine or not.
    I guess these are fairly easy to copy and since there are so many available I do not dare to buy one for I DO NOT know what to look for.
    wizardelf

  2. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by wizardelf View Post
    Yep,
    I saw it, but I'm no expert in this matter, so was not sure if it was genuine or not.
    I guess these are fairly easy to copy and since there are so many available I do not dare to buy one for I DO NOT know what to look for.
    wizardelf
    Same with me, I don't buy these either.

  3. #93

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    I would not either. What a shame that so much of collecting is made uncertain by selfish dishonest humans...

  4. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by LRRPS View Post
    Yes, hollow-back. I will take pics / scans tomorrow and include.
    Any joy with those pics LRRPS?

  5. #95

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    Quote Originally Posted by wizardelf View Post
    Yep,
    I saw it, but I'm no expert in this matter, so was not sure if it was genuine or not.
    I guess these are fairly easy to copy and since there are so many available I do not dare to buy one for I DO NOT know what to look for.
    wizardelf
    Ditto. That's why I have never bought one

  6. #96
    I just wanted to do a round of what has been discussed in this thread because there may be some doubt about some of the things that have been mentioned.

    There were a number of questions raised and answered so I'll list them here and will link to the post where something was shown/said.

    Is there a period colour plate from a publication that shows the cuff titles?
    Yes, lots. I posted one here. It was scanned from "DJ Führerschaft" printed 1941

    When were the cufftitles (Armstreifen) for HJ-Sportwart, HJ-Schießwart, HJ-Geländesportwart and HJ-Skiwart introduced?

    For the HJ this was on the 4th of Dec 1936. For the DJ on the 29th of Jan 1937.

    Does the regulation say how long the cuff titles were?
    No. It only explains the position (left arm a couple of fingers width above the cuff). However, in lieu of further information we must assume that they were worn around the full circumference of the sleeve on introduction in the same fashion as the CTs for Landienst, Streifendienst etc

    What are the short versions?
    Debertex did not provide a reference but he offers the suggestion that the band was shortened later in the war, possibly due to material shortages. The OB shows the CTs as follows:

    1938: long
    1943: short

    This may be an indication that the CTs were indeed shortened in 1942/3 but I see no regulations on that up to the end of 1942.

    There are plenty of photos, even within this very thread, showing that the majority of these cufftitles were worn short: Here, here, here, here (on a surviving shirt). The other photos do not show enough detail to say for certain that the CT was being worn around the full circumference of the sleeve.

    Why are some HJ shown wearing two of these cuff titles?
    The 1936 regulation introducing them (mentioned above) states clearly that only one cuff title could be worn. Even if the wearer was qualified in the other disciplines, he was only permitted to wear the CT corresponding to the activity in which he was directly engaged. This was clearly ignored on occasion but it is still useful to know how they should have been worn.



    This is for you Colin Davie. You said this on WAF 27.8.2013.

    "well Fred Green showed the cut down fakes were on here not so long ago and told they were made in the 70's, but what does he know about cloth?

    Nowt apparently, because HJ forumites know better than me, period publications and Fred Green. A guy in a period photo cut his cuff title short.. so what? Does'nt make the fakes real. BTW who else on that forum had a full length cufftitle? No-one. I don't collect HJ anymore but have more rare HJ stuff still lying around than the whole bunch over there.
    "

    Period publications? This one? It has to be a picture because even if a period source were written in your favourite font (Big Crayon 400) you still couldn't read it.

    "Cut down" does not necessarily = fake. The fact that you have a long version of a CT means that long ones probably existed. It does not mean that short ones are more likely to be fakes. The period photos in this very thread show that your statement is meaningless. You need to prove fakery on a CT to CT basis. That is research. Blustering in semi-English and having tantrums is not. In the meantime I suggest looking hard at this thread again and finding the other period photos of short CTs that you missed last time you looked.

  7. #97
    Another observation... why the use of use "names" in your posts of dealers, in a weak, possibly subconscious? way of automatically trying to impregnate the authenticity of something - even if the rest of the world thinks the sun shines out of their backsides - is not what i would call reliable.
    Quote Originally Posted by hohum - Colin Davie View Post

    .... once beat me to a green title on one of Detlev's updates, ......
    Quote Originally Posted by hohum - Colin Davie View Post
    On page 3 of Detlevs update today is a yellow title with document,
    ...that ended in tears before bedtime.

  8. #98
    Here is a better image of the one posted in post 84.

    nachsendung-06-HJ-sportwart-cuffs-in-wear.jpg

  9. #99

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    Great thread. Thanks all for the info as it answered the question about the wearing of the CT on the full circumference of sleeve vs the small strip. Here's a uniform-removed HJ-Schiesswart CT (not mine) to add to the others on the thread.

    schiess.jpg

  10. #100

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    Here is a part of my little Collection! 2 short and 2 long.
    HJ-Warte klein.jpg

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