Hitler Youth Gefolgschaft and Jungvolk Fähnlein standard bearer sleeve patch

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Hi guys, I would like some opinions on this standard bearers patch. Do you think it's ok? my gut feeling is that it is

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see here for a couple of fine originals and fakes John, most hj collectors are only happy to collect the ones with the missing top to the diamond these are the ones seen in the period reference pictures and the only one i would buy! theres also two original online for sale i remember one is tagged and around 600E they are always expensive, i think also the patch you show is a bit larger than the original version but dont quote me on that one!

the fakes of these are quite good like many other cloth hj insignia imo

http://www.hj-research.com/forum/f1...faehnlein-standard-bearer-sleeve-patches-528/
 
here is another 2

http://www.hj-research.com/forum/f16/good-hitler-youth-standard-bearer-patch-5409/

this ones best shows the image in the OB
http://www.hj-research.com/forum/f16/hj-gefolgschaft-faehnlein-standard-bearer-patch-7132/

the differences on the one you show compared to the worn originals are easy seen on the feet, swas and eye area are easy to see, but you would surely think there would be originals without the weave error aswell but they never are seen around in the same quality and flawed also most are mint mint mint! yes theres also mint and tagged originals out there but they have the weave error to the diamond tip but are much more quality and a different size from the other repros, this is just my opinion of course :)
 
i would buy it John to see it under the microscope and to compaire to an original someday ;) and you will recieve more answer here mate but i fear they will all be the same as above!

sell it for what it is everything has some sort of value and not worth binning be better to learn from it imho

cheers,Ewan
 
I agree with Ewan. A reproduction. Look at the top border that tells all. Here's a nice original example.

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Here's one from Ulric:

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And one from Bill Shea:

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They both look the same as the one I posted to me
 

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yip mostly all cut from the same cloth matey! yours is the same as bills, note the bottom of the swastika squares, the one on malcolms sight is different as it has the point but still a reproduction, dont like how its been machine sewn to the brownshirt cloth would feel much better if hand sewn! not that the last bit there matters about anythin!

look on weitze you will also find some minty fakes, alot of the repros are mint but folded also!

another good un, 680 euros good,GULP!!

Admin edit: link to external picture now invalid as pic was removed from dealer site.
 
most of these SB insig are fakes imho same scenario with the first and second pattern hj/nskk raute below (hence the no comments in me thread, but plenty of opinions privately! ) same with the hj firefighter diamonds, same with the hj sports attendant cufftitles!

originals of all can be found if you know what to look for tho, the two insignias below have no glow and are originals imho , going by construction of patt 2 to patt 1 , nice crazing on the silver wire when close up etc etc :thumb:

has anybody black lighted these repros ? could you John ?

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I have Ewan. That's what threw me, it does not glow at all. Some very interesting comments. how long have these "fakes" been around? It's not like the market is swamped by them.

A good learning curve :) (and expensive) :(
 
mate these have been around for decades a week searching would find more than you think

sat for a while! would love to see the black light picture of that John is there nothing at all? have you tried moving the threads on the back while under the light? we all know reproduction insignia is made with modern threads and also old thread aswel or so i thought it was old original thread they used, but i seen a comment a few days ago where BobC says the repro insignias that dont glow are treated with chemicals to show no glow, how true that is i dont know!

on waf theres a 70's repro 10$ gun show insignia thread and these are found in there aswell i think, this one below from Veterans Footlocker just poped into my head! there is loads of them around!

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cant you return it mate? i would love to get my hands on a few of the $10 insignia from the waf thread to learn from, much info and realisation can be had with a usb hand magnifier mate, nothing like original age & construction! if the helmet and badge guys use it then why cant cloth insignia collectors? i just need some fakes but the thing is everybody things they are good so want a fourtune!
 

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hey folks i realised not long back some of the fake hj insgina have the same construction traits that originals dont have imo

look here at some very rare original cuftitles

http://www.hj-research.com/forum/f79/fake-sport-attendant-cuff-titles-compared-real-ones-7898/

look at the dashs on the mint repro SBI above in the area i have arrowed on steve (zanders) fine original that can be seen in the cloth for sale section here at the forum! note the same dashies on the fake cuffs also !

the weve thats looks like I.I.I.I.I. are a no no for me :thumb:

e2a, weitzes fake with original tag, shows the same repro construction, safe to say yours is the same under the folds? wonder alot of the mint ones are folded to hide this? could be coincidence then it could be not :sad:

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beautiful is the word your looking for Darin!!

The rest of the items that came with this patch, with the exception of the triangle which I added to complete the grouping for display.

There are many of fakes of this patch at well known and "trusted" dealer sites and in many collections. Sadly accepted as good by the vast majority it seems.

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I am not disputing any claims made about the originality of the patch. I will take it on board everything that has been said, and put it down to experience........ but i have a silly question to ask.....How do the likes of Ulric, Bill Shea, and Weitz, to name a few, sell these same badges as real, and get away with it? Is it fooling these people? Or are they just after the money? And who is buying them?
 
IMO these dealers believe these patches to be good for whatever reason in many cases. Some collectors also probably believe these to patches to be good, some know better. Often times well known dealers are trusted, their opinions on items are taken as gospel due to reputation and time in the hobby. I am not questioning these dealers ethics or business practices or attacking them at all. The item is the only thing I question as items should stand on their own. I've never seen a dealer site, bar none, that did not have a questionable item on it at least once or twice. Bad items getting vetted as good IMO is the result of both sellers and buyers not doing homework on items. I've seen a lot of items described as "vet acquired" or "vet bring back" as well that are bad items. The source of the item matters not, the item itself is what matters. It's like a vet could never have a bad item in his possession to some people.
 
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