opinions on this Marine-HJ rank/qualification patch.

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this looks like an hj naval rank patch but i have not found a good photo to compare it to. Opinions please.

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It looks good to me. The stripes look closer together than other examples I've seen but I like it.
 
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thanks for the help

It looks good to me. The stripes look closer together than other examples I've seen but I like it.
I have only seen 1 before in a dealers case (over priced ) this was on e bay as a japanese naval rank 24.00$ the 1 in the dealers case was 100.00 what is a fair price I am sure I got a great deal but do not know what they go for
 
$24 USD is a great price. $100 USD is about the going price, some dealers are asking a lot more than that, take a look at what Wietze and Huesken want for these patches.
 
agree you got a deal as DARRIN says check Weitze's site for the outrageous prices asked for in Europe for these. I still have to buy some example for t he HJ MARINE but never from those sites :canada1
 
Hi Gents,

24 Dollars is a good price in comparison to dealer prices.

What puzzles me is that these patches are for sale quite often but I have never seen one of this particular type (with one, two or three chevrons) in wear. And I do have approx 250-300 photos of different MHJ boys (portraits, snapshots, etc) of all different kinds of ranks with many different types of chevron/anchor patches.

If someone has a photo with exctaly this type (small anchor, circular patch, with or without a red cord around), please post - I would be delighted to see it.

Rgds

Daniel
 
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Hello,

The only picture, for my part, where it is possible to distinguish the round MHJ patch (already posted by another forum member). I also do not understand why we do not see more!

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Hi Lauri,

this is indeed the very first one I ever see. Thanks for posting. It just crossed my mind that we never see any of these round patches with RZM tag on the back ... and they have usually put the tag literally everywhere!
What I have see fairly often on my photos, and this is in my opinion the patch for A, B and C level of the Reichsseesportabzeichen, you can see in the attached pictures. Sorry for the poor quality of some.

Thanks again for posting, Lauri, and rgds

Daniel

P.S.: There was also a code for chevrons for leader of sailing boats, motor boats, etc. I have to have a look in the documents and will post this later.

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Hi Lauri,

this is indeed the very first one I ever see. Thanks for posting. It just crossed my mind that we never see any of these round patches with RZM tag on the back ... and they have usually put the tag literally everywhere!
What I have see fairly often on my photos, and this is in my opinion the patch for A, B and C level of the Reichsseesportabzeichen, you can see in the attached pictures. Sorry for the poor quality of some.

Thanks again for posting, Lauri, and rgds

Daniel

P.S.: There was also a code for chevrons for leader of sailing boats, motor boats, etc. I have to have a look in the documents and will post this later.

Hello Daniel,

Thanks for your reply. I am not familiar with the MHJ insignias but the subject are interesting. You are a connoisseur so a pleasure if I can learn more with your help!
 
Hi Fernand,

well I have to think a little before giving you an answer on this. First of all: there were technical units within the Marine-HJ, which wore the cog-wheel on the lower left arm. This is mentioned f.e. in the "Bekleidung und Ausruestung der Hitler=Jugend" of 1934, page 100.
Where I'm still not sure about is the circular small insignia on the boy's right arm. I'm absolutely confident when a boy had achieved the Reichsseesportschule part A, B or C he had to wear it on his normal blue naval shirt. Why the heck we never come across this particular one on photos? The were hundred of thousands boys going through these schools. Even more senior MHJ personnel, who had to have one of the three stages as pre-condition to take a leader's role, I have no photographic evidence of this in wear! Always the ones I have shown on the previous page!

BTW, the code I spoke about: 1 chevron was for leaders of a rowing boat, 2 chevrons leader of a sailing boat. For the blue and white shirt the chevrons were red, 6mm wide, each leg 3.2 cm long, the two legs in a 90 degrees angle to each other. The cloth had a dimension of 9 cm high and 7 cm wide.

Unless this regulation was amended in a later version, this would mean
a) all the pictures I have shown indicate leaders of rowing or sailing boats
b) I don't have any photo of a single boy with either A, B, or C level of the Reichsseesportpruefung
c) there's only one single picture out there, shown by Fernand 3 years ago, which displays a boy with ANY level!

Naaaaah, never! The mystery remains the same. I strongly tend to stick to my old opinion that these chevrons shown on my pictures indicate the A or B or C level. The small circular patches we can buy nowadays in absolutely unworn condition, always without RZM tag, at two dozens of dealers all the time. What the heck ... we seem not to make any progress here!

@ Garry: do you have anywhere the regulation about the Fahrtenanzug of the MHJ? Somehow I doubt that they wore the normal HJ field cap.

Anyway, enough chit-chat. I play the ball to Garry and/or Wim. They have the regulations and if we are asking kind enough they might have a glance ...

Rgds and nice weekend

Daniel
 
Here is a photo I found on Ebay .

It shows interestingly a Luftwaffe flak helper that has earned an HJ naval able-seamam rating prior to being a luftwaffenhelfer .

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This is a prime example for what I think is the official badge for a successfully passed Reichsseesportschule C grade training.

@ Paul: no, I'm not trying to say the badge is "Bogus", although everything what I wrote sounded a bit like that. Let's put it this way: until the photo from "Debertex" was shown I was in this opinion. However, now there's photographic evidence that it is a period badge. Now, due to points mentioned in my last msg, I'm a bit clueless. Sorry for not giving a more comprehensive answer on that.
Maybe it was indeed a small version for the Fahrtenanzug, which was obviously not worn very often by the MHJ.

Rgds

Daniel
 
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okay great thanks for the clarification as I am interested in this thread. On a personal note, I have noticed a big discrepancy in sizes between the post number one and the wat time photos shown which appear much larger :canada1
 
just had a buddy offer me these sales sample boards
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Garry: do you have anywhere the regulation about the Fahrtenanzug of the MHJ? Somehow I doubt that they wore the normal HJ field cap.

Sorry Daniel, missed this one first time around. The Fahrtenanzug headwear is described here (posts 1 and 7).

We discussed the round badges briefly here and I still haven't come across any period info that describes them and attributes them. As late as the end of 1942 the Marine-HJ qualification patches (Seesportprüfung A, B and C etc) are still described as follows and as we all know them:

On the Arbeitsbluse, white with blue stitching. Otherwise, blue with red stitching.

Seesportabzeichen: oval patch with red anchor
A-Prüfung: oval patch with one chevron
B-Prüfung: oval patch with two chevrons
C-Prüfung: oval patch with three chevrons
Seefunkabzeichen: oval patch with lightning
Spielmannszug: same as the patch for B-Prüfung but with the point of the chevron facing up.

Going on what the regulations are telling us, these odd circular patches with the anchor and chevrons must have been introduced late. Although it wasn't always an absolute reflection of what was happening at the time of publication, the Organisationsbuch der NSDAP for 1943 certainly doesn't show them:

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