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  1. #1

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    white Bannfuehrer cap ribbon???

    Good day Gents,
    I have been offered the ribbon below and it was a bit of a question mark what it could be. Now I remembered (and had actually a look in Wim Saris' book and some period photographs) that this could be one of the white identification ribbons, worn by Bannfuehrer around the visor cap as sign for being in charge of a Bann. I'm pretty sure these Bannfuehrer ribbon were retrofitted when a guy became promoted to Bannfuehrer and took it off when he moved on up the ranks.

    Has any of you a similar item and knows what it is or can show me how a real Bannf. ribbon looks like? Or has anyone a visor cap with Bannfuehrer ribbon?
    I mean I'm only guessing and hope to be here in the right place to seek opinions. If not, please move this thread or kindly tell me who I could contact.

    Thanks in advance for your expertise and time

    Daniel
    P.S.> I do hope the pictures are ok - will see when I submit the thread.

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  2. #2
    HAVE never seen this before so only a comment on what it looks like and that would be a cuff title of some sort.

    :canada:

  3. #3

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    In my opinion , if you can get it for around 45 dollars ; then you have an original HJ cloth cap diamond .
    I do not believe that this is an early HJ capband as the early and later visors used the metal HJ diamond . Cloth cap diamonds did not even come out until around 1940.

    Another possibilty : A band worn over the visor capband for use as an umpire during wargames , post 1940 ???
    Last edited by joecool; 8th October 2010 at 06:15 AM.

  4. #4
    Have you contacted Wim Saris regarding this band? He is currently working on a new volume of Headgear of Hitlers Germany with a section devoted to HJ headgear.

  5. #5

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    Wim Saris contact

    HI,

    thanks to all for your participation. The idea with the umpire is good but I'm lead to believe by a photograph in my collection there was no insignia worn on such ribbons. Anyway, this is only one photo and there might be many different patterns - if there was a standardized umpire at all.
    What made me actually thinking it is a Bannfuehrer identification ribbon is the period "drawings" on page 174 and 175 of the "aktiver Bannfuehrer". Pretty similar, i.m.o.

    I have no contact with Wim Saris, unfortunately. I had his email address somewhere but 'misplaced' it. Darin, could you do this for me or submit his email address via PM?

    Thanks again and I hope we get together with your help to the bottom of this little mystery.

    Daniel
    Last edited by Marine HJ; 8th October 2010 at 06:00 PM. Reason: typoes

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Marine HJ View Post
    What made me actually thinking it is a Bannfuehrer identification ribbon is the period "drawings" on page 174 and 175 of the "aktiver Bannfuehrer". Pretty similar, i.m.o.
    Could you show the drawing please Daniel? What size is the band in post 1? I haven't heard of a special hat insignia for active Bannführer before so I'm really interested in this. The early Bannführer visors had a white 'Besatzstreifen' but this was part of the visor and not a removable band as I'm sure you know.

    As Joe says, yours has the later 'Sommermütze' cloth diamond so that would be the period we'd need to start looking from I think. I'm thinking umpire too to be honest. Not because I've seen anything to support that but it does seem logical.

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by Garry View Post
    Could you show the drawing please Daniel?
    Hi Garry,

    had totally forgotten about this thread. The deal went bust, so I never obtained this ribbon. Unfortunately I'm not home and don't have Saris' HJ handbook available, so can anyone else provide a scan of these pages?

    Quote Originally Posted by Garry View Post
    What size is the band in post 1?
    As far as I remember it was a standard size for a cap tally: about 3 cm wide and about 65 cm long, so sufficiant to reach around a cap. As we can see, the fabric is much different to a naval cap tally. Yep, may an umpire is the closest explaination. Wim Saris, by the way, I contacted and he said it is very unlikely that this could have been related to a Bannführer. However, he has never seen anything like that before.

    Quote Originally Posted by Garry View Post
    ... early Bannführer visors had a white 'Besatzstreifen' but this was part of the visor and not a removable band as I'm sure you know.
    No, sorry. That's new to me. Never had such visor in hand or even seen in close vicinity. Also, I don't have a portrait of an active, early, Bannführer with white "Besatzstreifen", where something can be concluded from. So all this is total new terrain for me. I was in the opinion, that it was a white ribbon, which could have put on the visor. I noticed on this photo, I have, that there's no HJ insignia at all on his visor but it seems, that he has something on the white ribbon.

    Rgds

    Daniel
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