$10,000 for a box of fake HJ dies?

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Someone bought the "cat in the bag" last year at Hermann Historica .. over ten thousand dollars for a box of fantasy and fake dies, half complete, bogus makers numbers... WHY? either a novice collector on crack, or someone with a press who wants to set up shop

LINK to the Hermann Historica sale here: €8400.- / USD 10,900.-

 

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yikes

a novice on crack would see they are duffers! look at those DJ rifles and rune
And the bogus BM1/122 number? and all to common fake M1/120 number? and two fake Ungarn dies..... OK there are a few other dies too, the Oak leaves (thats real, yeah right) some wound badges and a few other trinkets... but over 10 large, on a box of, well, pretty much useless metal? a load of rubbish really....

That auction house almost always have a few fantasy and fake items thrown in with the good. On many of their "lots" there is always a piece or two that stick out as bogus. So maybe they dont do it on purpose, maybe they dont really know what they are doing when it comes to small badges. With the dies at least they mentioned that "some" are post war, and that "some" are incomplete, and that they give no guarantee... so really the buyers fault for spending 10 large, (plus 20% commission) er... 12,000 excluding transport on a box of scrap metal
 
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Did nobody notice that the HJ golden badge die, with oak leaves, is the same one as Chris Ailsbys badge, showed here. The leaves wrap along the length of the edge with no breaks, and there is a silly scroll at the bottom. Also pics of the full badge with BM1/ number.

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Super rare "prototypes" coming to the market soon!! Hot off the presses!
Not so sure. They have all been in use before, and at least some of the badges, and BM1/122 number are long known fakes.
Apart from the KVK 2nd Class, i dont see another set of dies, all i see are half's, either obverse or reverse. And surely at least half are post war repro dies of mediocre quality, so i cant see how you could justify 12,000 to yourself on this lot.
Maybe there is something i am missing? hiding in the very bottom of the box perhaps?
 
just saw one of those hinky DJ shooting awards on the collector guild
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site:canada1
 

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Not the first time I've seen a bad item there. With all sellers, know your items before you spend your money.

As for H.H. auctions, one need only look at the H.J. uniforms offered there, I've not seen one there in recent history that did not appear dodgy with reapplied and mismatched insignia.
 
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looks like it is being sold as an awards as is and matches one of those die sets
Paul, the description says:
Cross rifles and DJ rune as removed from the front of a marksman’s badge.
Noticed the oak leaf border die as well for the HJ marksmanship badges...




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so i cant see how you could justify 12,000 to yourself on this lot.

yes you could your just being polite now Jo, one way would be to use them and double your 12,000 to start off with! thats the only feasible reason i see tbh! some hj planchets easy stamped in bronze and coppler and the patina faked which is easy with these non ferrous metals and they are started!
 
what saddens me is not that someone bought them, its the fact that a so called big name sold them, if he had any real morals he would have destroyed them as soon as he got them to stop anyone flooding the market with any more fakes
 
what saddens me is not that someone bought them, its the fact that a so called big name sold them, if he had any real morals he would have destroyed them as soon as he got them to stop anyone flooding the market with any more fakes
But the fakes are what keeps these businesses rolling. :001_tongue:Yes, even the duff number BM1/122 has been "outed" as being a fantasy mark in-print before. I guess it was probably a consignment lot from the owner of these fake dies, and the end price, well, maybe the guy who bought them didn't know what he was doing?
 
Are these the same dies?

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Someone on WAF seems to think they are real :001_rolleyes:
 

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There are even clear fantasy dies we can see, like the now famous BM 1/122 markings.
 
Ah okay, cheers Jo. So the higher-level ehrenzeichen die sold as part of this lot proves that his claim about them being TR period dress copies is bogus? Just wanted to get that clear in my head. I never believed him of course but wasn't sure whether he has accepted that his claim is just bullshit
 
Ah okay, cheers Jo. So the higher-level ehrenzeichen die sold as part of this lot proves that his claim about them being TR period dress copies is bogus?
For us, yes, but sadly, even those horrible fakes marked BM are in books by Angolia as genuine, and sold by dealers like Ulric woolly head of England as genuine. Wolfe/Hardin and Johnson too believe they are genuine.
Fake M1/128 | BM 1/122 HJ Ehrenzeichen (HJ Honour badge) Study

And you know yourself, that on the WAF there are die hard Angolia fans.. and customers of Ulric that will defend their fakes until the cows come home.

And you also know what the best case senario will be.. If you can convince the WAFites that the BM die proves that not all dies were genuine, then the reply will be:
Yes, but that BM die was the only fake die, the rest are all genuine!
We can`t see the original HH listing anymore, but it stated, 100%, that the lot was a mix of modern dies and genuine. If someone has access to the old catalog it was in, they will see the description. But thene again, what will the WAFites say when they read that?
"Oh, Hermann Historica was wrong, all the dies are genuine"

You simply cannot argue with anyone on the WAF. Their MODs decide what is genuine, like the Tooth Willi, like Serge Masche. If you try and convince them they are wrong, you will simply lose your account.
 
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