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  1. #1

  2. #2

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    Keep your money hoping that it is not too late. There is never RZM with the early badges.

  3. #3

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    I think you're not quite correct about this (never RZM). It is listed as "altes HJ-Abzeichen"
    with an annoucement in the Mitteilungsblatt der RZM from June 9, 1934 as one of the
    most important, official authorized badges (parteiamtlich genehmigten Abzeichen). It is
    noted with page 3.
    A far as I know the badge should have the RZM marking/code since mid-1934 and was
    allowed to be worn with the brown-shirt; the one worn with the headgear - so the earliest
    version - never should have this RZM code. For a while it was a sort of traditions-insignia.
    Later in July 1934 the traditions-Litze was introduced.
    Last edited by wilhelm saris; 14th November 2015 at 03:12 PM.

  4. #4
    That raised enamel is just awful looking. Hopefully you have not bought this badge or can return it.

  5. #5

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    Bummer. But thanks for the info!

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by wilhelm saris View Post
    I think you're not quite correct about this (never RZM). It is listed as "altes HJ-Abzeichen"
    with an annoucement in the Mitteilungsblatt der RZM from June 9, 1934 as one of the
    most important, official authorized badges (parteiamtlich genehmigten Abzeichen). It is
    noted with page 3.
    A far as I know the badge should have the RZM marking/code since mid-1934 and was
    allowed to be worn with the brown-shirt; the one worn with the headgear - so the earliest
    version - never should have this RZM code. For a while it was a sort of traditions-insignia.
    Later in July 1934 the traditions-Litze was introduced.
    When I mentioned " There is never RZM with the early badges ", I quoted well on badges worn between 1932 and 1933 and certainly not from 1934!.

  7. #7

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    This one is very bad.


    Regards, Wim

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by WIDUKIND View Post
    When I mentioned " There is never RZM with the early badges ", I quoted well on badges worn between 1932 and 1933 and certainly not from 1934!.
    Widukind, you have misunderstood. These badges - the 1st pattern HJ badge, round with sunrays and half swastika as is shown in post 1, can indeed be made in 1934. That is what the RZM announcements say in that year as well, and we know that these early 1933-1934 1st Pattern HJ badge are found with RZM and material contract number.
    Example here, from THIS THREAD.

    Correct is that it is a fake, and a poor one as well, there are better fakes of small badges that just show RZM-GES.GESCH. (see mentioned/linked thread)

    But, even though it is a early badge, it was made later as well, after the second Pattern diamond badge came out in mid-1933, and is not only "possible" to show the RZM logo, but indeed does show it by a few makers.


    1. RZM 15 - Hoffstätter
    2. RZM 39 - Robert Beck
    3. RZM 72 - Fritz Zimmermann
    4. RZM 75 - Otto Schickle

  9. #9

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    Hello Jo,

    thank you very much for all your useful and essential precision because you are by far the specialist for badges.
    I am even amazed that you had not reacted earlier to this thread......!

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