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  1. #1

  2. #2
    15 rays are okay aren't they Jo? Hitlerjugend first pattern membership badge (Arbeiterjugend)

    The red section looks wierd though. Almost looks painted - which of course wouldn't be okay..

  3. #3

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    Were did you found that ugly thing, Jo? According to your earlier investigation it could be a good one.


    Regards, Wim

  4. #4
    Hi guys, there is no could be, it`s a genuine badge made by BECO, maybe around 1931-1932, that ties in with other BECO badges made in a similar "horrible" fashion. i bought the badge to study a certain attribute, the "horrible" stippling or bubbles under the red enamel.

    At the moment, i am focusing on the background patterns under the visible enamel, or the "bubbles". It is very obvious what the standard patterns look like under magnification - pertaining to the tooling used to create the actual pattern - in relationship to the time periods they were made. (and what standard tooling was being used in Germany then - as well as how the dies "usually" had the pattern added after the working die was reduced - or hubbed ) It would not be fair to just study good, "normal" patterns, and compare them to bad fake badges. Fakes are often cheap items made in a horrible way, so it stands to reason that many patterns found on fakes will not look the same as original, so i need a few "horrible" original badges - just to see exactly what they look like like under magnification - and to see if any connection can be made between pre-war German working die tooling, compared to post war tooling. As well as tooling i also mean the actual way in which the working dies had the patterns added, even the patterns that we cant see under the opaque enamel. Sure they will not always be the same, Germany was huge with many different tool makers, die makers and workers who would have scored/marked the working dies before they could be used. I am reasonably comfortable though, that the results of a study like this, will prove fruitful. After all, German Third Reich manufactures were not working the same, using the same tooling, as Americans or English, or Japanese etc etc.... i am sure you get where i am going.

    So this badge had to suffer, it`s broken now, cost me almost €100.- as well, but a necessary step. A few images of what i am on about, as well as a few of the lovely micro-patina on the front
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  5. #5
    Here is another example, this time a fake badge. The aim i guess, at this stage is to build up a reference library of detailed images of the actual pattern, and compare the originals to the fakes, to see if there are any instant warning signs. In order to accomplish this, many badges will need to be sacrificed, and lots more research done..an ongoing project that will help us link fakes to certain makers, as i have found out, even if a forger made badges for many decades, he still tended to use the same tooling and style, to score the background. At the very least, it will give us an idea of what is accepted, and known as being used pre-war, and what is known on fakes. (in some instances, ONLY known, or found, on fakes)
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  6. #6

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    It's interesting Jo but I'm afraid i don't follow it all. Explain it to me like if I was a boy of five. In the first series of pictures it is also difficult to see from which part of the badge the magnified pictures are taken.


    Regards, Wim

  7. #7
    Hi Wim, the magnified images of the "pattern" , in this image below, the large magnified image represents the small white circle, a total space of about 0,2 - 0,5 mm.
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  8. #8
    And with the BM1/122 example, image 1 is the badge with no enamel, image 2 is the enlarged section that has been circled in black on the actual image of the badge, and the magnified image 3 is a small portion of the enlarged section, so what it means, is looking at the actual pattern at around 25-40 times magnification, just to get an idea of the structure of the bubbles, or patterns.
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  9. #9

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    I'm focus on the enlarged enamel pictures now. I assume you can see differences between pré war enamel and fake enamel but how about the quality fakes from the 70's. Looks this enamel the same as the pré war enamel under magnification?

    Regards, Wim

  10. #10
    Hi Wim, good question, this topic is covered in detail in the book, so we just need to wait a few months:-) the answer is of course yes.

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