HJ Arbeiterjugend membership badges marked only with "RZM GES GESCH""

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I believe this pin on Grenadier military to be a dud. My red flag is the lone and poorly raised RZM stamp on this early badge. So lets hear the opinions by the way I did buy the other one he had with the correct marking

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Compared to another example I have seen on collectors guild the swaz on this example seems to be thicker and slightly more counter clockwise in position. Also, some of the sun rays in the collectors guild one actually touch the outer rim whereas they don't in the other example.

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Hi Guys,

I am adding another example to this question.

From Weitze:

Admin edit: link is now dead

It is a quite different example, starting from the Svastika, to the sun rays (thinner).

Best Regards

Antonio
 
Hi Paul and rest.

This "game" could be a success if we extended to other areas. And we all learn about it.

What about somebody showing pics of a "dud" and the rest of the people tells why and put other examples which shows the differences?. When the dud has been totally discovered, it could be moved to the fakes areas.

The reason I mention this is because, sometimes, we tend to say, "it is a fake" and that is it. In this way, we give reasons, we investigate, we play and we all learn for the future.

Regards

Antonio
 
Antonio THAT IS WHAT WE are doing here now, as I believe the example I put foreward due to the ugly rzm stamp is a dud . The exercise is to get everyone thinking posting thoughts and coming to a conclusion. I have already told the dealer my thoughts and bought his good one. THE OTHER may end up in the fake data base yet but want more input from the members here

PAUL
 
There is some disagreement on whether this badge can have an RZM mark but it is perfectly acceptable. The badge was permitted for wear after the introduction of the HJ diamond and was designated by regulations as either 'the old round badge' or the 'tradition badge'. It was worn as an outward sign of seniority by those who had been members of the HJ prior to 1.6.32. On the introduction of the honour badge (HJ Ehrenzeichen) in 1934 the old badge became redundant and was from then on only permitted to be worn on civilian clothing. The regulations permitting this were still in effect years after the RZM had control of HJ badges so in my opinion it is pefectly possible for a traditions badge to have RZM markings to cater for those who lost their badges or simply wanted to buy a new one after 1934.

I can't give much info on the badge shown by Paul other than to say that I don't like the finish to the reverse as it has that shiny, bubbly look I see on other fakes. The obverse looks pretty convincing but I do remember reading that the rays should not taper?

Edit: see also post #16 by Jo further down the thread regarding badges marked only with "RZM GES GESCH".
 
i dont like it shows a lot of things that i would not expect to find on an original
 
The one that Pat shows in post 4 is definitely a fake with the main giveaway being the 'classic' coffin-shaped pin base
 
Personally, I don't like it. Generally looks to be lacking in quality / precision and then there's the issue of the RZM mark. Ultimately, too many causes for concern IMHO.
 
Another thing to look at.

Notice the distinct upsidedown "U" shape holding the pin in the plate? This always worries me on pre 1945 badges.

I have never yet found proof whether this style plate was used or not during the period, but I certainly do not like to see it on badges. It does turn up quite often on questionalble items.....

Cheers
Don
 
Also, wasn't this badge phased out before the RZM started stamping things, therefore making it impossible to have an RZM stamp????
See thread here The RZM began marking requirements in 1935 - please review... - Wehrmacht-Awards.com Militaria Forums
Just found this thread. The information on the linked WAF thread is wrong. The badge posted is a post war Fake, the RZM mark along with ONLY ges.gesch is not Period and not found on any period badges. The RZM mark can indeed be found on these, as per the RZM 1934 rules, this badge is even mentioned as
"now requiring the RZM logo"
in a 1934 announcement paper..cant think off my head exactly what one, but will add it later when i get home)
 
I agree not good. Does not match the period originals that I know of. Also, I was burned by one of these myself. I believe these came out of the seventies or eighties. Of course I could be wrong. Not the first time.
 
funny after all this time I just noticed another detail I do not like on my example shown that being the solder oozing out from the pin plate something that would never be permitted to exit the factory



:canada1
 
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