Opinions on this unmarked HJ membership badge please!

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Hello all, looking for options on this badge. I picked it up cheap as it’s not marked in any way; I have compared it to real ones and fake ones and I’m leaning to fake. The pin assembly is different and that what attracted me to purchase it.

What do you think?

Best Wishes,
Richard

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I'm no expert by far on these,but i would pass it up as i think that the baseplate is wrong it is however difficult to judge from the photos provided maybe you can get some photos made in natural daylight.
 
i would pass on this the enamel in the red area is all wrong, if it is enamel hard to see in these pics, but pass on this you can pick good ones of these up cheap
 
Close up pictures

Here's a couple of close ups in sunlight, any changes in opinions?

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The enamel looks a lot like the type you see on some of the early Jungvolk DJV badges but I've never seen it on the final pattern HJ badge. There is also the issue with the pin plate which does bear a resemblance to those found on the Hoffmann fakes as a couple of the guys have said.

Out of interest has anyone ever seen a pre-RZM HJ membership badge?
 
Thanks for bringing up the pre RZM, which was my thought when I purchased it. I have 4 originals and 3 fakes (huh!!) but this one is different from the fakes, especially the pin assembly and quality.
 
This is my thinking too Richard. Hopefully one of the members will post a pre-RZM. These do exist because there was around a year between the badges coming into use in September 1933 and the RZM assuming control of production in 1934.
 
ive got a solid red hj members badge but the red is still very diff to the badge shown above
 
guys it was a fake with the first pics and nothing has changed made in POLAND probably early last month and the pooor enamel not withstanding those pins never existed in the TR period sorry but it is what it is in this case

PAUL
 
ONE other thing to note is that the diamond was adopted in 1933 and would have been available in quantity probably in 1934. The RZM system kicked in 1933 so there may not be any interm badges as the round version would be worn until the diamond was available . Most early pre RZM badges normally where stamped with maker on the pin bases and where round .

PAUL

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reichszeugmeisterei
 
Yep i fully agree with Paul on this.to bad that you payed any money for it as that originals are cheap and easy to come by
 
I would disagree on that data Paul. Wilhelm Saris has many early orders which show that the diamond was in use as early as 1931/2 and that it was officially introduced for all HJ in September 1933. Even if the RZM gained control of these badges in 1933 (which I doubt but can't prove) it still means that there were pre-RZM diamond badges around.

I take your point on the pin catch and another worry would be the total lack of a manufacturer's name or a GES GESCH. I'm not saying that the badge is a good one - I'm just not ready to say fake without seeing more because that type of red enamel can also be observed on the early DJV (first pattern DJ membership badge) and is atypical for the fakes which seem universally to go for the normal dot pattern under the red enamel as opposed to what we can see here. It's also the first badge like this that I've seen so my interest was sparked by that alone :)

I personally would need to see a few pre-RZM badges before I could close Richard's badge out completely but we're all entitled to our opinions of course. That's what makes research interesting :)
 
Hey presto. Here's another. Found it on mil321. Now that I've seen this and Toby's I'm happier about saying that Richard's isn't looking promising. As Paul said though, the catch was always a problem. It was just that red enamel finish that was keeping my mind open a little. Having said that though, the finish on Toby's is somewhere in between.

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The sunken black enamel on the swastika is not a good sign - usually indicates a modern fill technique rather than a period "overfill and polish down to the metal" method.

There was a gap between the HJ diamond's introduction and RZM marking. RZM marking of party items (including the HJ) became mandatory in a law of December 20, 1934, effective January 16, 1935. The RZM was around before that, but the marking system - including the logo - didn't start until later.
 
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ive posted a members badge without any marking a few posts down from this one, pre rzm? any opinions? Pete.
 
I once had a pre-RZM, 2nd pattern badge, fully marked for Deschler. :crying:
 
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