Painted Deutsches Jungvolk membership badge?

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Were these produced well into the war? why? for use as a traditionsabzeichen. ?

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cant see why there should be a painted version of this badge at all, unless painted badges are not late war as is always thought, but just a regular variation, any regs stating when painted badges came into use ????
 
Personally , I dont like it . Why would a badge that was discontinued around 1934 , be reinstituted in 1944 ?
 
hi joe, this is what im asking is it fact that all these painted badges like the one above and the hj ones etc are 1944 or late war, or is this an assumption because of the lesser quality
 
The DJ membership badge and the HJ Arbeiterjugend badge were, as we know, rendered redundant by the introduction of the HJ honour badge in 1934 and they were no longer permitted to be worn on the HJ/DJ uniform as an outward sign of early membership of the HJ and DJ respectively. They were however permitted for wear on civilian clothing after that and for that purpose but.... how long would there have been a market for these badges? Is it possible that there was still a market in the early 1940s when painted badges made of inferior materials began to appear? This was a time when the youngest of those who qualified to wear the badge as a tradition badge were now grown men in their 20s.

1939 marked the end of applications for the HJ honour badge within the Reich. Are we to imagine that a DJ boy would have failed to notice the introduction of the HJ honour badge in the 5 years since 1934 and also have failed to apply for this prestigious award? I think that we must consider the market for DJ membership badges to be non-existent in 1939. In reality though, the market is likely to have dried up 1936/7 - at an aaaabsolute stretch 1938 as the very last stragglers within the Reich received their HJ honour badges.

With the above dates in mind, the existence of a "late-war, pot metal" (if some dealer is describing it in that way) DJ badge must be an impossibility. Any DJ boy who was a member of that section of the Hitler Youth prior to 1.10.1932 (this being the requirement he had to satisfy in order to continue wearing the DJ membership badge as a tradition badge) would have been in his early 20s in the late-war period when these painted DJ membership badges were supposedly being made, sold and worn. Are we to believe that a 20-something man would be going to his nearest RZM outlet to buy a DJ membership badge to wear on his lapel when home on leave? Are we to believe that there was a market for DJ badges in the final few years of the war? I can't see it and I think that anyone attempting to sell one of these is going to have to make a damn good case for it - using evidence from the period.
 
gar is there anything in anyof the regs you have that mentions painted badges or is it an assunotion based on the fact the gau 44 is painted therefore all painted badges are 44 -45
 
No Stu. Nothing on painted badges in the regs here. Jo should have something on painted badges I would imagine. Not specifically HJ badges perhaps but the practice in general.

Just a quick one mate: I saw the thread on the Wagner badge on WAF today. The reason for the paperwork saying 1938/39 is that the preparation and planning for the 1939 competition where she was a Kreissieger started in October 1938. That certificate is from the DAF Orts- and Kreisobmann. As you know the competition was a DAF competition with the HJ taking control of certain aspects. I've never seen a certificate like that before but it makes sense.
 
interesting gar, i was lost with it ,i told dion its not a standard kreiss doc which he thought it was but never seen one before but yet it looked period so was confusing as to what it actually was, might try and get hold of that little set lol
 
Painted small badges would have made their debut around 1942, but not introduced across the board from then, it would depend on stock still around, as well as demand for each item...and areas etc. In Austria for example messing enameled badges were still being made in 1943, for example the multitude of lesser known clubs as well as shooting badges.
So theoretically both Versions, i.e painted and enamel messing being available at the same time, yes sure, even produced at the same time, just in different areas, BUT NO WAY before the outbreak of war. Possibly as early as mid war, 1942-but also in areas like Austria and in parts of Germany much later, 1943-1944.

Unfortunately there are only announcements and mentioning of the lesser quality metals, Cupal, and others in the UM that pertain to the LDO, i.e awards and not small badges that fell under the RZM. There is mention of the meetings that took place to talk about saving War essential metals, even with a representative from the RZM being present, that date to 1940, but this is too early for messing and enamel to stop. (but does coincide with the change over from messing coins in 1,2,5 and 10 pfennig denominations in mid 1940) The transition was also not immediate with small badges, you will first see a transition from messing enameled to other materials like Eisen and Messing-plated eisen being used, then you see at the beginning of the zinc period in some areas, makers using old stock, ie: eisen and messing, but painting them, then after, towards the end, you find zinc in all kinds of quality, i.e Monkey metals, good quality, or feinzink etc... unless of course no amount of certain items were needed during the transition, and only a big order went in in 1943 or so for badges that were not made since 1939 or so...

There has been a huge increase in fake zinc painted badges since about 10 years now, (possibly to do with the Internet) but thats not important, what is, is that i have a method that will be able to tell you with 99,999% certainty if a painted, or as was the case with many but not all badges, painted and then lackiert (varnished) badges - are original or not, its very simple, yet very effective.

If these DJ badges were allowed to be worn as a kind of Traditionsabzeichen later on, then it might explain why some were made in the mid 1940s. To say that these painted zinc badges were available before the war, is something that i totally disagree with. Maybe there is such an announcement in the RJF or similar? from 1942-1943?

Garry, it is being offered by a good buy, but he also has the three painted HJ Gold badges up for sale too, which i dont accept as genuine.
 
Go for it Stu :)

Thanks Jo. Well, as I say, I don't think that there would have been a market for the round DJ badges when applications for the HJ Ehrenzeichen stopped in 1939. This assumes that anyone was even wearing the old DJ badge at that point.

The HJ Ehrenzeichen replaced the round DJ and the Arbeiterjugend pin in 1934 of course so by 1939 the boys who had qualified to wear the round DJ as an honour badge (by being members of the DJ prior to 1.10.1932) would almost all have been in the HJ (less those who remained as DJ leaders) and wearing the tradition stripe on the sleeve triangle and the HJ Ehrenzeichen to show early membership of the organisation. With this in mind I don't see that there would have been a personal requirement to retain a third level of recognition by wearing the old DJ badge on a civilian jacket. It's possible I suppose that some might have worn it after receiving their HJ Ehrenzeichen but not many and certainly not into the 1940s when these people would have been in their early 20s and members of the RAD, Wehrmacht etc.

In terms of the market there just can't have been enough of a requirement after 1939 for new badges let alone for that painted type. There is a photo on the forum somewhere of a boy wearing the round DJ on civilian clothing but it's the only one I've ever seen.

I see no announcements on the round DJ here Jo other than confirmation that it remained prohibited as a uniform item. The last regulation I see on this is still extant at the end of 1942.
 
this seller has a lot of painted hj badges of different sorts as well as from other orgs, learning something really quick now AFTER a few years in this hobby!

He is a nice guy, but i fear he has a dodgy source .. of course later on, when they have found new homes and are resold they will all have come from returning vets, for sure, in fact that may even be the story behind them now i dont know, but possibly he is selling them well, and possibly getting them cheap from somewhere, so i guess, as long as they sell, he will get more. I wont touch them with a long stick though.

Heard a very interesting story about the Green, supposed Austrian-Styria Zinc painted badges a few days ago, namely that there was never such a badge made at that time, and all the zinc ones are fakes, i.e: fantasy inventions. The guy that told me this, showed me an image of a box of them, and i mean a box containing a few thousand of them! they do seem to be up for sale pretty cheap on most dealers sites, something else strange for a supposed rare badge. The same guy showed me pics of the enameled version, and its sweet as a nut, with only a handful known. Begging the question, why so few enameled known, yet zinc painted all over, at a price of six-for-one if not less? anyway, thats another topic....
 

Thumbs up alright.. .these are what i mean, and the more you do a concentrated search for them, the more you will find them, Weitzes, Winkler, Warbooty, etc etc... these two are from Spencer Victory.. only 75 a pop?

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and this? made late war and painted?

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Same as above post, this time found on BECK MILITARIA... keep em a `rollin rollin ...

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That's insane too. A painted, presumably 'late-war' tradition badge? What next? Oh, nearly forgot the Hitler Youth fire axe/screwdriver combo for a minute there...
 
More painted crap, this time at eMedals ...

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