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  1. #1

    Hitler Youth achievement badges (Leistungsabzeichen) marked with an S

    MA_page_26_1.jpg
    Clyde Davis has Authenticated them as being genuine (page 29, Vol 21 N2 of the two part series about HJ-Leistungsabzeichen in the Military Advisor.) A few members here have posted pictures to a few made either By M1/35 or M1/101. I don't agree with him on this issue, and will try and show you why below. I believe that all the "S" marked Leistungsabzeichen are post war fakes, made in a horrible way, using a method that was not used in their construction. Forget the fact that the numbers are (fishy smell) similar on both maker marked versions of these. Forget the fact that the letter "S" cant actually mean anything and forget the terrible workmanship on these who were made years before by the same makers in the correct way, marked the correct way and using the correct materials. Lets just focus on one such badge in question.



    On this thread, i pointed out that one was recently up for sale for €48- described as Genuine. Well i bought it. The seller is adamant that it is genuine, i had already informed him that it was a fake before i paid for it, but that i wanted it to take apart, and would not be asking for my money back. He still believes that it`s the real deal. Anyway, long story short, lets get down to the facts, followed by a strip-show.

    Sideview_fake_s_5.jpg

    Much lighter than any badge i have, the two part construction reveals straight away that there is something fishy here. As mentioned, HJ Proficiency badges were not made in this way, so red flags should go up already. If you only have obverse and reverse pictures, as are on most dealers sites, it`s quite hard to see that all this is, is a hunk of horribly cast aluminum stuck onto a thin sheet of copper, and then individually whacked with consecutive numbers, by hand. The sheet of copper that it`s stuck to, has been crudely stamped out, with the edges still sharp and in places off-center. You will also note from the following pictures that the hunk of aluminum does not even correctly fit onto the separate sheet of copper. (observe the tail area of the below pictures) You will also note, that both the M1/35 and M1/101 badges, which are both constructed in this same way (read the MA article mentioned above, where reference is made to the M1/101 being a two part construction) show the same horrible flaws and off-center backing plate, if you will. How this could be factually and convincingly backed up is unclear to me, especially by anyone who has a few Period examples of the HJ Proficiency badge and is acquainted with the craftsmanship of these HJ Proficiency badges.

    A horizontal view looking directly from the front and back, gives you an idea of the horrible casting, and of course the copper surfboard it`s resting on.

    Compare_edges_1_fake_35.jpg


  2. #2
    Lets get Naked ...

    ... or those of you familiar with the cult film "Pulp Fiction",
    Lets go to work on him, with pliers and a blowtorch.
    fantasy_s_peeled_view_1.jpg fantasy_s_peeled_view_2.jpg fantasy_s_peeled_view_3.jpg

    Will it burn ... ?

    No silly, it`s a hunk of aluminum, not cheap tin like this melted one. I held the same torch over that one for 3 seconds before it melted, and bust it`s doughnut. On this one, i held the torch over it for a full 1 minute ... and ... nothing.

    fantasy_s_peeled_view_4.jpg
    For those of you who insist that your "S" marked badges are real, you have to explain the following:

    • How two separate makers who had been making these for years (before these particular serial numbers,) and made them after (as higher numbers from these makers are known, and known to be good) could both come up with the same idea to suddenly, and for a short period, make two-part versions, in horribly cast aluminum (not struck as originals were, cast) with stupid copper backing plates, and then let a dislexic employee loose on them with a hammer and some stamping tools.

    • You will also need to explain why the serial number on the M1/35 marked badges is on the left side of the arrow, and not on the right as it usually is with known Originals.

    If you can explain these few points in a plausible manner, then i`d love to hear from you.

  3. #3
    fantasy_s_face_view_1.JPG
    I have taken the one from the Military Advisor, and enlarged the photo, compared alongside to my one, even though they are supposedly made by two different makers, the reverse copper sheeting shows the exact same mistake/flaw on both. The one that user Patric uploaded here, also shows the same flaw that the die used to stamp out the thin copper sheeting left. I mentioned that the actual aluminum cast part was horrible, well the copper sheet backing plate is just as bad, it looks like it was cut out by hand, with blunt scissors by someone who has Parkinson's



    HJ_side_damage.JPGIn any case, add this together with the last few questions on the post above, and i personally don't see how you could convince yourself that they were period. I guess people will though. Shown in the recent Military Advisor as real, on sites like Becks Militaria as Real, and the one on this thread was sold to me as real. A fleeting thought, might be for someone who is good at putting Articles and the like together, to re-write the complete Leistungsabzeichen Article for the Military Advisor, including the First Hollowback badges, adding the vital part about distinguishing between fakes by viewing the sides, and including a good section on these terrible, multi-construction nonsense "S" marked badges. The only thing that has really changed for me since stripping this badge, is that i no longer believe that Rudolf Souval had anything to do with them, they are unterste Schublade quality. (Quality from the very bottom drawer)


    roll_jacket_pin.jpg
    Once the copper surfboard has been removed, you realize why it`s needed. The badge is so thin and weak, that you can literally roll it up like a bottle-cap in your fingers. Anyway, that's all i have to say about this. I hope you have all enjoyed watching me get sexy with a €48.- laughable fake. Donations for my time and effort (three digit minimum) can be handled through PM




    wondering_8.jpg
    The last oddity with the serial numbers, for those of you that picked up on it, that being the number 8 is larger than the others, and looks like it has seen better days, can easily be explained. It started life out as the number 9, making the badge 199999. But because of the problems explained above, (dyslexic workers, blunt tools and Parkinson's) it has been over-stamped using the number 9 again, changed at a 180 angle, giving the impression that it is indeed number 8 and not number 9. We see through this ploy though, and have here not only a surfing hunk of aluminum pretending to be a noble award, but also number 9 pretending to be number 8. How low can you go.

    Last edited by Jo Rivett; 12th October 2011 at 08:00 AM.

  4. #4
    A very good article Jo (great graphics again by the way). It's difficult to disagree with your logic, particularly the angle on why two makers would suddenly decide to produce poor quality badges before going back to normal production later. The die flaw linking badges together is also a good spot.

    The 'S' is infurating though because it's one of those things where we think 'why oh why would a faker add something to a badge which wasn't ordinarily there'? Possibly to confuse us, possibly because he was confused? Possibly because it was a convenient way to fix the copper layer a little more securely? I don't know but I think you've made a very good case against these 'S' badges being authentic TR.

    Does Mr Davis go into any detail on the 'S'. I'm assuming not because I'm sure you would have mentioned it.

  5. #5

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    Many thanks Jo for the well researched and written article. Some collectors will stick to their beliefs but you bring light into the ever-increasing darkness of collecting.

  6. #6
    Fake_cast_ridge.jpgGarry, i think if you look at the basics, Paul mentioned the numbering a few times now, and he would be correct, these are all hand stamped and skew. On the M1/35 badge the numbers are on the wrong side of the arrow too. The aluminum part is cast, and badly (◄see thumbnail left) , the copper backing stabilizing sheet is stuck on !!! The best though, is when you have this in your hand, it screams out "I dropped out of a Xmas-cracker, pick me up i`m yours".

    The "S" i would imagine is to confuse. There are similar letters on other fake badges, the Womens Flugmeldedienst is one that springs to mind, Only made by Josef Preissler in Pforzheim, with raised mm and recipients individual number. They are also "around" marked with "ES" which is supposedly for Ersazt-stck, which i don't buy for 1 minute.(The numbering on these are also always almost the same, this really should be a dead giveaway, or at least raise such a high flag that it would need to be properly, and convincingly explained before moving on and selling it as real)

    The only Help i can give, is, stick to the Facts, stick to History and what we know, and you should be fine. The moment you have to start thinking up, or making up reasons for certain Odd attributes, that is usually the time to put your wallet back in your pocket and walk away. btw, Military Advisor article mention below. Yes yes, S could mean silver.. it could also mean sucker, stupid, sloth, slim shady, sugar, the possibilities are endless.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  7. #7
    :) Here's an M1/101 you'll like

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Garry View Post
    :) Here's an M1/101 you'll like
    What you only see when you have it in hand, but from that link above, can see in the pics as well, is that the backing plate/surfboard, is razor sharp in places, does not fit snugly under the aluminum cast piece, and would cause damage to the guys uniform, and shred his fingers every time he tried to put it on/take it off. You could give one of these to a blind man, and ask him if he "felt" that it was a period piece and he would say No-way.. he would also be needing a few plasters...

  9. #9
    Cast Aluminium ... i`ve said a a few times here, but the badge below, currently on sale at Becks does Justice to this... Not just cast, but badly cast..
    Attached Images Attached Images

  10. #10
    To view detailed pictures of an Original M1/35 badge, see this thread.

    The differences are obvious really
    comparison_55.jpg
    Last edited by Jo Rivett; 17th October 2011 at 11:10 AM.

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