Hitler Youth achievement badges (Leistungsabzeichen) marked with an S

The word Parkinson's should not be banned, I realize some have ignorance issues in the use of the word, " but hey that's life" have a good one crackbaby (humour)
 
The word Parkinson's should not be banned, I realize some have ignorance issues in the use of the word, " but hey that's life" have a good one crackbaby (humour)

Ahem... taking your line of thinking to its conclusion: "crackbaby" shows ignorance of the plight of children born to crystal meth addicts but you made a joke about it so am I to assume that Parkinson's is bad because you know someone who has it but crack babies are okay as a subject for humour because neither you nor anyone in your family has had one? My best friend died of a heart-attack some years ago but I wouldn't dream of ticking strangers off for making a joke about heart-attacks. Jeez, life is hard enough sometimes without guilt-tripping someone on a forum for making a lame joke about a medical condition.
 
Oh no... Social Justice Warriors have infiltrated the HJ Research forum!

:swiss


Gary to reception...Gary to reception....
Please set up, a Safe Space sub-forum, immediately. A Millennial Bubble, free from anything and everything that could possibly - in any way imaginable - offend anyone and everyone.

A place with no words, just the coordinated nodding of heads and grunts of agreement and approval.

Indeed, some humans do have Ignorance issues. Me, I belong to that weathered batch that was first off the line long before words like "Golly Wog" and "Eskimo" were banned. In fact, I still use them!
A proud & early member of the "my box of f×××s to give is always empty" club.
 
Hello,

I got this piece ... It is an "M1 / 63" and does not have the features of the M1/35 and M1/101 pieces ...
It is absolutely clean worked and it is heavily, weighing 15.2 grams ...

Do we have something original here?
Looking forward to your opinions ...


Greetings

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Oh no... Social Justice Warriors have infiltrated the HJ Research forum!
Gary to reception...Gary to reception....
Please set up, a Safe Space sub-forum

:first:

I added a potentially nice and quite useful plugin to the forum a few days ago that made finding content on the forum much easier than the standard search. I was told today by this company that our forum doesn't meet their guidelines on acceptable content. Here are those guidelines:

Category

Illegal activities
Terrorism, sale of illegal drugs, human trafficking.
Malicious and deceptive practices
Transmitting viruses, malware, or other malicious or destructive code; promoting phishing scams.
Hate speech
Promoting or condoning violence against individuals or groups based on race or ethnic origin, religion, disability, gender, age, nationality, veteran status, or sexual orientation/gender identity.
Harassment, bullying, and threats
Engaging in or inciting others to engage in harassing, bullying, or other threatening behavior.
Personal and confidential information
Distributing other people’s personal and confidential information, such as credit card numbers, confidential ID numbers, or account passwords, without their permission; posting or distributing images or videos of minors without the necessary consent from their legal representatives.
Child exploitation
Content that exploits or abuses children, including child sexual abuse imagery (including cartoon images) and content that presents children in a sexual manner.
Sexually explicit material
Sexually explicit or pornographic material.
Violence
Depictions of graphic or gratuitous violence.
Impersonation
Misleading or confusing users by pretending to represent an organization you do not represent.
Commercial promotion of eBay-restricted items
Promoting commercial activity of items on eBay's prohibited and restricted items list.



So where do we come in there? Well, they said that the very last line is the one that got the forum booted. We discuss things that Ebay does not sell.... What a pile of shite. If you ask me, they were triggered when they visited the site and just totally knee-jerked. In my opinion, safe spaces should be locked from the outside as soon as they fill up...
 
This is how you explain the "S" when your only aim is profit:


Stück mit Verleihungsnummer: 170735 und dem seltenen Stempel "S"
(piece with award serial number and the rare "S" stamp)

Extrem seltene Variante mit "bronzener" Rückseite. Daher auch das eingestempelte "S" für Silber !!!!!!! Mega Selten!!!!
(Exremely rare variant with "bronze" reverse showing the "S" meaning that it's the silver grade. !!!!!!! Mega Rare!!!!)

Yours for only 195 Euros (reduced from 215 Euros)



Herzlich Willkommen bei Josch's Sammlung. Ich bin seit über 35 Jahren leidenschaftlicher Sammler von deutscher Militaria. Nun habe ich unlängst mein Sammelgebiet auf den Zeitraum 1800 bis 1918 beschränkt und gebe deshalb hier etliche Sammlerstücke 1918 bis 1945 ab.

Welcome to Josch's collection. I have been a collector of german militaria for over 30 years. I recently changed my focus to the period 1800-1918 and am therefore offering a number of collector items from the period 1918-1945.

Why? Too many fakes?
 
For the quick reader: Not all HJ badges marked with an "S" are post-war forgeries, but have actually existed.

In this thread, the two manufacturers M1/35 and M1/101 are treated in the same way, I do not have these pieces for comparison and do not play a role for me here. This is about two M1/36 and one M1/63. So two completely different manufacturers than those listed here for comparison.

I have had a heavy zinc piece with the "S" marking for a long time, which I have already presented here, and since then I have been of the opinion that this thesis is not really correct. Now I was able to purchase another piece from the manufacturer M1/36 - Berg & Nolte AG, Lüdenscheid and compare it with other pieces from the manufacturer and not only with photos but with a magnifying glass in hand. I think the thesis that everything with "S" is post-war forgeries can no longer be confirmed in this way.

First, I'll show a black piece from the same manufacturer and the same material aluminum with thin copper foil. I don't think anyone would question this piece when it was presented or sold. These pieces can be found more often in this style and I think many have these pieces from the manufacturer M1/36 in their collection.

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Now the second in silver also an M1/36 piece ...

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The second is just not painted black and has the "S" stamp. Both weigh almost the same, the black 9.1 grams and the silver 8.8 grams (i.e. 0.3 grams difference because of the color / production, etc.) otherwise I can't make out any differences. The RZMM1/36 stamping is also completely identical, as can be seen from the shape of the "3". The production of both pieces is absolutely clean.


Now again the already shown heavy zinc piece with 15.2 grams also with "S" stamp.

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Both silver pieces, the one made of aluminum and the one made of zinc, come from secured estates.

Here are more pictures of the silver M1/36 from the edges ...

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And from the black ...

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And a few more comparisons ...

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Thanks for this new addition to the thread Falco. The pics are very small but the angle about M1/36 badges being manufactured differently and not having the characteristics of the M1/35 and M1/101 badges examined by Jo but that still have the S is intriguing. The purpose of the S remains unexplained of course but I think you're right. Not all S-marked badges should be considered to be fakes based solely on the M1/35 and M1/101 badges seen in this thread.

I see that one of the badges you show has those wavy lines through the award serial that are seen from time to time. We discussed those on the forum in the past and I mentioned that I had seen an order regarding the badges of boys who had been expelled from the HJ/DJ which stated that they were to be withdrawn and returned to the RJF. I still have a theory that this is why we see the wavy lines but I never did find that order. I'll try to find it.
 
Sorry for the small pictures, how that could happen again I really don't know.
Probably happens if it has to go quickly, here again with the original pictures ...


For the quick reader: Not all HJ badges marked with an "S" are post-war forgeries, but have actually existed.

In this thread, the two manufacturers M1/35 and M1/101 are treated in the same way, I do not have these pieces for comparison and do not play a role for me here. This is about two M1/36 and one M1/63. So two completely different manufacturers than those listed here for comparison.

I have had a heavy zinc piece with the "S" marking for a long time, which I have already presented here, and since then I have been of the opinion that this thesis is not really correct. Now I was able to purchase another piece from the manufacturer M1/36 - Berg & Nolte AG, Lüdenscheid and compare it with other pieces from the manufacturer and not only with photos but with a magnifying glass in hand. I think the thesis that everything with "S" is post-war forgeries can no longer be confirmed in this way.

First, I'll show a black piece from the same manufacturer and the same material aluminum with thin copper foil. I don't think anyone would question this piece when it was presented or sold. These pieces can be found more often in this style and I think many have these pieces from the manufacturer M1/36 in their collection.

You don't have permission to view attachments.
You don't have permission to view attachments.


Now the second in silver also an M1/36 piece ...

You don't have permission to view attachments.
You don't have permission to view attachments.


The second is just not painted black and has the "S" stamp. Both weigh almost the same, the black 9.1 grams and the silver 8.8 grams (i.e. 0.3 grams difference because of the color / production, etc.) otherwise I can't make out any differences. The RZMM1/36 stamping is also completely identical, as can be seen from the shape of the "3". The production of both pieces is absolutely clean.

Now again the already shown heavy zinc piece with 15.2 grams also with "S" stamp.

You don't have permission to view attachments.
You don't have permission to view attachments.


Both silver pieces, the one made of aluminum and the one made of zinc, come from secured estates.

Here are more pictures of the silver M1/36 from the edges ...

You don't have permission to view attachments.
You don't have permission to view attachments.

You don't have permission to view attachments.
You don't have permission to view attachments.


And from the black ...

You don't have permission to view attachments.
You don't have permission to view attachments.


And a few more comparisons ...

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You don't have permission to view attachments.

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I see nice stamped edges on thatsilver M1/36 and on the black. Jo definitely proved I think that the badges he examined were fakes I think but I agree with you and Garry that we can't just say that all "S" badges are automatically fakes now. Still doesn't make any sense to me to stick copper onto aluminium and then stamp it though. I can't think of any reason why they would do that?
 
I see that one of the badges you show has those wavy lines through the award serial that are seen from time to time. We discussed those on the forum in the past and I mentioned that I had seen an order regarding the badges of boys who had been expelled from the HJ/DJ which stated that they were to be withdrawn and returned to the RJF. I still have a theory that this is why we see the wavy lines but I never did find that order. I'll try to find it.

I found two references in the regulations showing that the achievement book, cloth badges, metal badges and miniatures belonging to those who had been expelled from the Hitler Youth had to be returned to the RJF. Still looking for the reference that I read years ago saying that the award serial numbers had to be removed/made illegible.
 
Hi Garry,

I can support the first part with a source, the Leistungsbuch itself.
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Translation: "In case of dishonorable expulsion from the youth, the achievement badge with the achievement book as well as the cloth badge and the pin must be handed over immediately to the responsible unit commander, who will pass it on to the RJF through official channels."
I don't know what happened to the badges.
 

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Yes, it's annoying me now that I can't find the part about removal of the numbers. It was a long time ago though when I saw it.
 
Could it have been here?
Arbeitsrichtlinien der Hitler-Jugend, hrsg. von der Reichsjugendfuhrung,
Berlin 1940 - 1944: Die Leistungsabzeichen der Hitler-Jugend. (Buddrus, p1015)

If not, you will find it purely by chance if you are looking for something completely different, as almost always ;-).
 
Very true :) I can discount that publication as being the source for me though as I don't have it. I'm going through the RJF Verordnungsblätter and Nachrichtenblätter at the mo - nothing yet...
 
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