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  1. #1

    M1/72 HJ achievement badge without award serial number?


  2. #2
    Soft details, particularly inside the swas arms, unissued but looks like the (very thin) silver wash has, well, washed off. Not only doesn't it have a number it also has no 'B' and I always wonder about a possible scenario that would lead to a load of unmarked badges being found. Surely the only scenario is a box at the manufacturers... I mean, the RJF would not have dispatched blank badges so such items can only have existed further up the line. I don't like this badge and I don't like unmarked achievement badges in general.

    There. you have the first opinion :)

  3. #3
    I know what you mean with "blank" but it cant really be, because IF any number were to be added, it cant be done post manufacture, it would ruin the shape with the force necessary to punch the numbers on, so it`s blank in the sense of being made especially like this, with just M1/72. There are also M1/34 "blanks" about, and many of them. The silver coating has "worn" off but i just found another online that looks exactly the same, with the coating worn off..

    Yes i have problems with this as well, i`ll show you why just now..
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  4. #4
    The point at which the award serial number was put onto the badges is something I haven't yet seen described in any primary literature. Clearly the manufacturer wouldn't know what serial number to stamp onto them because only the Reichsjugendführung had that information so if the manufacturer was stamping the badges then it must have been the case that the RJF was transmitting batches of serial numbers to the various manufacturers. I wonder if anything has turned up to show that happening? The alternative scenarion of course is that the RJF took delivery of blanks at regular intervals and then stamped them as required but as you say, surely the obverse face of the Tyr rune would be damaged by cold-stamping.

    In lieu of documentary evidence perhaps the answer lies in a comparison of the stamp characteristics based on maker. If they are all the same from say M1/101 but different to M1/34 then that would be good circumstantial evidence. I have to say that I always imagined the achievement badges being stamped by the RJF as required but sending batches of serial numbers out to manufacturers makes more sense and also would accommodate the scenario that GIs may have found them there. No HJ boy would have received one of these blanks - that's for sure.

  5. #5
    I did that already, and they are the same, but all different, pointing certainly towards each maker stamping them and not one source. Even the normal older ones are different. The sizes are also different, so that there could not be one main die, or form for the RJF to put them into and then re-stamp them without distorting them. You could heat them up, and "press" the number in without distorting them, but then bang goes any silver-wash, bronze wash or black wash, and the solder melts meaning that the RJF or whoever comes into consideration as a sole stamper, would need to re-solder the attachment, treat the badge to get rid of the heat mark, and re-galvanize it. And i guess we are all old enough to agree that badges did not leave the makers like this, they left finished! The individual numbers also show us that each maker used slightly different stamps. Except of course when it comes to the S marked, and struck out serial numbers, which are all the same stamps - pointing to one maker using the same tooling. (hmmm)

    Anyway, the attachment plate seems to be messing, but under the micro. shows absolutely no patina at all, not even a hint.
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  6. #6
    The raised lettering should be worn, after all parts of the back are showing wear on both sides, but under old Micro. absolutely nothing, still a nice coat of silver-wash, or spray paint on top of each. So the reverse is worn? the sides of the attachment plate as well, well thats what it looks like, but important raised parts that would first be subject to wear..are not touched?
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  7. #7
    The rim patina? well there is none, no matter what part you look at, zilch!!
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  8. #8
    The white rimmed image is the M1/72, at the TOP of the arrow, or the place that would surely be the first to come into contact with daily life, compared to the red rimmed image which is the same image, but of an Original!

    The second image, both red rimmed, are close-ups of the rim patina on an original leistungsabzeichen.
    Granted one is zink (or some other white metal) and one is messing, but even with zinc badges there will be at least a CLUE that it had been there and done it... with this one, there is nothing at all.

    I seem to remember a thread here about a hoard of M1/72 HJ achievement badges, ground dug in Austria ??? maybe i am mistaken.....
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  9. #9
    Oh Lord, i wanted to see if i could bend the edges with my fingers, which i could, but they didn't bend, they both snapped off... ha ha ha, and as the second pic will show, with the three exposed "metal" parts, it is not zinc, but zinn :-) ha ha ha ha, made from the same rubbish as the modern M1/63 fakes that i showed a while back. OK, i`ll bury it next time i am in Austria, and in a few years.......... :001_tt2:
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  10. #10
    I forgot the little paper bags actually. They also have the badge serial number on them - more work. No, I agree with your logic Jo. I'm just exploring the possible scenarios. You're right, it doesn't make any sense that the RJF would order blanks (and the paper bags) and then have to spend ages heating them up, stamping them, reattaching pins etc when all of that could be done at the factory prior to delivery. I go back to my point in post #2 that these blank badges can only have been found at the manufacturer's location.

    Glad my instinct about the badge in post 1 was good :)

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