Help with Golden Leader's Sports Badge

Joined
Jun 6, 2009
Messages
381
Thanks Received
155
Location
Yasgur's Farm
Here is a badge that I acquired a week or so ago,no serial number which means it was never issued is that correct?
Since I bought this one it seems that I have been seeing more of these for sale (maybe my imagination) than before I bought it.Thanks in advance for all opinions.

Mike

You don't have permission to view attachments.
You don't have permission to view attachments.
 

Attachments

    You don't have permission to view attachments.
The B is considered to be a replacement badge for the serial numbered badge. There's others here that are really good with these badges I'm sure they will have more information for you.
 
yep a B struck badge is believed to be a replacement for a lost or broken 1st badge which would have been numbered, but im starting to re-think this due to the amount of B struck badges we see , not all youths could have been this clumsy, maybe they are more private purchases so the youth could have a back up badge , anyway nice badge has lost a lot of finish but still nice
 
The B badges are definitely replacements for lost or damaged originals and the regulations state this for all achievement badges. The only exception to this B rule was the HJ Honour badge where replacements were issued with the original serial number until 1940.

I think it perfectly feasible that a person would want to have a spare (B badge) for normal wear so as Stu says, perhaps people applied for one as a matter of course. I haven't read any accounts which would substantiate that but it makes sense.
 
JUST to be a stick in the mud there is much thought towards there being two levels of these the B level being the easiest qualification level thus more around. You would think that if they where a secondary badge for wear they would mostly be beat up and worn just my thoughts though, I am now off to buy a numbered one that has just showed up
 
No Paul, there was only one level of this badge. I have the regulation in front of me. There were two leader competitions (one for lower leaders and the main competition for the higher leaders with an equivalent system for female leaders) but only the higher male leaders received the large serial-numbered badge. Who is spreading the story about 'B' badges being a second level of award rather than just replacements? A dealer perhaps? :)
 
I've seen a guy on another forum posting about this. However, he has been proven incorrect times regarding HJ items. Most recently on a Marine HJ visor cap insignia where he went on and on about it being a fantasy item until photos and links to caps were posted.

Edit, It's more of a questioning of the meaning of the B, is it for Zweitstück, and if so why is there not an A Zweitstück, I think is what some are asking.
 
Last edited:
Ah, I think I know the person you mean Darin. Always has something to say regardless of whether he has any knowledge in the subject area...

Whether people routinely bought a second 'B' badge to wear in order to prevent the original from wearing out is something I couldn't say but it makes sense and would perhaps explain the number of 'B' badges we see. Also, when you consider who wore the Golden Leader badge and also the badge's strong attachment system I can't imagine that many of these were lost so this perhaps reinforces the idea that many leaders routinely bought a 'B' badge and that we see these today alongside the genuine replacements for lost or damaged badges.

There was confusion even during the period with these badges when they were first introduced because it was unclear where the badge sat in the heirarchy of the achivement badges. The Golden Leader was a pure sports badge as opposed to the wider scope of the achievement badges and on earlier photos you can see the golden leader badge being worn on the left breast pocket with the HJ achievement in silver (a prerequisite for the award of the golden leader badge) on the right breast pocket. It was later decided that the Golden Leader was to be ranked higher than the HJ in silver and this meant that if a leader qualified for the Golden Leader that it would replace HJ silver on the right breast pocket.

As far as the proposition is concerned that it was possible to have a Zweitstück of the original serial-numbered badge i.e the owner could have two serial-numbered badges I can only say that such a provision is not mentioned in the regulations and would, in any case, make no sense because the regulation already provides for 'Zweitausfertigungen' (replacements or additional badges). These are designated as 'B-Ausgabe' badges and are thus marked as such with a 'B'. The regulation explicitly states that the initial issue consisted of one serial numbered badge only. To date I have never seen two badges with the same number and I think this acts as additional proof that there were only original 'A-Ausgabe' badges with serial number and 'B-Ausgabe' badges with the 'B'.
 
Gary this subject was discussed on either WA or GDC at one time and one dealer emedals has used this theory and you are correct in the hundreds of badges I have looked at never found a B with serial numbers. But still strange in a way because all these badges had minis available also.
Makes allot of sense and of course the B ones should be much cheaper the dealers of course have never bought into this go figure eh!. I just bought one on germanwarbooty .com and he describes it correctly as the presented version

PAUL
 
Last edited:
That kind of thing will happen less and less in the future as more and more HJ collectors get tuned in. A 'B' badge should be nowhere near the cost of a serial-numbered version no matter how much the dealers dislike the idea of making less money.
 
Thanks to everyone for the info. & Paul I also bought this one from John over at warbooty & just missed the one you purchased :drool:

Mike
 
Back
Top