swimming awards - HJ Schwimmen Jugendländerkampf

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anythings possible , maybe to the British squaddie it was all foriegn -- German ,i ll see how far i can go with researching it !(which due to lack of replys and the uselessness of google might not be much further ) on top of that there is now doubt whether it is a girl --- doh !
Terry, if you know how to use Google properly :w00t: then it can work wonders. ie: If you were looking for info on say the HJ Proficiency Badge, and tapped in *HJ-Proficiency Badge* on Google.co.uk then you would get directed to very differnt sites/links than if you first went onto Google.de /.at/.ch and tapped in *Hitlerjugend Leistungsabzeichen* :yo:
Always try using the correct German terminology first. You could also try searching for banal events pertaining to the badges, ie: *Länderkampf 1941*, *schwimmen 1941* etc... sometimes you will stumble across a site that has what you are looking for, yet does not contain any of the main search words you tipped in. Of course it helps if you can read German too, but google has a translate-page under each link i think?
What still "bothers" me is the lack of countries names on the swimming Plaque. It cant be Austria and Germany by 1941, and could only really be Switzerland or Italy. Here is an example of one from 1942 between Suisse and Germany. The only others that i know of from the war period took place in Italy. I had quite a few of these Länderkampf Badges, Plaques and awards once, and always remeber them having the names on.
 
thanks for the tip, i m now able to access more relevant items , seems there was a "landerkampf in 41 with Hungary --- translated as "countries fight Germany-Hungary on 3-5 october 1941 at lttc rot-weiss berlin grunewald", --- rock and hard place really ,one on its own "never seen anything like it " or "must be a fake " find another example or two --- "DEFINITE FAKE ",so far it seems if it is a fake (albeit a beautiful one ) the faker only made one !
 
thanks for the tip, i m now able to access more relevant items , seems there was a "landerkampf in 41 with Hungary --- translated as "countries fight Germany-Hungary on 3-5 october 1941 at lttc rot-weiss berlin grunewald", --- rock and hard place really ,one on its own "never seen anything like it " or "must be a fake " find another example or two --- "DEFINITE FAKE ",so far it seems if it is a fake (albeit a beautiful one ) the faker only made one !
LOL, who said "must be a fake" ? doesn`t look like a fake at all to me. Some collectors dont like what they have never seen before, they stick to the main stream and when a unique item turns up they "have an opinion" based on what they have seen over the past 5 years or so.. :sleep:
I guess there will a "reason" for everything, according to some. If they started to show up now often at auctions etc, some might say... "see it`s a fake, now they are everywhere" and the others, who believe in these very regular hoard finds, and old stock found in attics would say that it is definitely part of the recent Scheisster Hoard find.. and how beautiful and mint it is.." I guess lots of collectors fear the unique due to the amount of cr4p out there today, fair play, there are an bundance of Fantasy badges and enamelled awards, badges around, they can though, with enough patience and research, be traced back to what they were moulded on, what they are pretending to be, and in most cases, when, and who made there. This swimming award/plaque is unique, but i cant see any indication that it`s a fantasy product at all, based on the actual item that is, and not on what collectors are saying or are supposed to know. So there is no mm, and no country names, thats odd, but i dont see that as any indication that it`s a fake.
 
thank you for that common sense comment , i supose research will be the answer , but its bloody hardwork! as i intend on keeping it for a long time i guess i have time to see if any info comes up ,as to the collection itself , i feel it must have been acquired as one , otherwise we have a British squaddie collecting swimming medals from Holland and Germany during the war !sound a bit too picky and unlikely to me ,i m not getting any replys from the two Dutch sources i e-mailed , which is a shame , would have been nice to put a name to the Dutch ones at least , is it inconcievable that a Dutch woman could have partaken in the 2 German events ??
 
Hi,

1941 was the first year in which the Länderwettkämpfe took place. They were held immediately following the 5th Youth Summer Games in Breslau in that year. The events were swimming and athletics. Holland did take part and eventually came third overall in the athletics and took second place behind Germany in the swimming. This will be where your girl received the medal so perhaps it might be possible at some point to find the lists of winners.

Source: Das deutsche Mädel Oct 1941 p2

Patzwall published an article covering these badges (Militaria 5/2000). They came in two versions: swimming and athletics and as far as I know these each came in gold, silver and bronze levels. There was also a presentation folder (an example is shown in Patzwall's article) for winners that had this badge on the cover.
 
Hi,

1941 was the first year in which the Länderwettkämpfe took place. They were held immediately following the 5th Youth Summer Games in Breslau in that year. The events were swimming and athletics. Holland did take part and eventually came third overall in the athletics and took second place behind Germany in the swimming. This will be where your girl received the medal so perhaps it might be possible at some point to find the lists of winners.

Source: Das deutsche Mädel Oct 1941 p2

Patzwall published an article covering these badges (Militaria 5/2000). They came in two versions: swimming and athletics and as far as I know these each came in gold, silver and bronze levels. There was also a presentation folder (an example is shown in Patzwall's article) for winners that had this badge on the cover.
many thanks Garry thats most informative and helpful ,i always thought they all belonged to one girl, to find her name would be brilliant
 
No problem. Yes, as you say, it should be easier now to find her name. Perhaps one of our dutch members could help with researching swimming club pages? These often show results going back to when the club was founded and such an important win would surely be listed.
 
she was obviously a very good swimmer and given that in 1941 she became "dame" intead of "dame junior" i guess she must have featured in post war events , presuming she came to no harm of course , it d be great to find out her name
 
just a heads up on this guys , I m tantalisingly close to putting a name to this collection , cheers Terry
 
Sounds good Terry. It has been a couple of weeks since your post and I was wondering whether you got the name in the end?
 
hi Garry , dealing with any Dutch , club , authority etc concerning anything about the war years is most frustrating as they just blank you!I have a tentative identification as Irene Van LOTT a champion backstroke swimmer who won the national championships in 41, 42, and 43 .I know she also competed with the Dutch team in German held wartime competitions , after the war she held several world records . Trying to put a name to the woman who won the national championsips in these years would seem an easy task ,but no one can or will furnish me with the names !!
 
Hi.
I also need some help with this award. The owner of award is selling it, but I do not know how much should I pay for it.
Sorry for the bad picture I have only this one.

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I would not but this if the only photo is the one shown Mr. V.. In this era, poor photos are a real red flag. There is no excuse for a photo of this poor quality when selling an item unless a seller is trying to dupe a buyer. Insist on better photos front and reverse or let it go IMO. Not worth tossing good money after based on that photo.
 
Hi.
I also need some help with this award. The owner of award is selling it, but I do not know how much should I pay for it.
Sorry for the bad picture I have only this one.

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what is the date and writing on this one? I agree better pics are an absolute must ! Iawait more with interest
 
schwimmen, jugend landerkampf, 1941
The award is 100% original, because the owners father was a member of HJ witch can be proven with pictures, also he was a professional swimmer and he has quite few of awards, including some more from 3Reich, later Germany, and all over the world.
So my only concern is what to pay for this award, because he told me that I should suggest some price, but do not know what is fair...
 
i ve waited a long time to see another example ,price is subjective as I ve only seen another one (mine) and I bought that as part of a collection ! You ll still need better pics realistically for anyone to be able to give an opinion here. Myself I m just extremely interested in any info on this medal , does it mean that every competitor received one? or just winners? Its exiting to find another one with provenance as initially when I first showed mine no one had seen one before and some even thought it was a fake !
 
I forgot I had this documentation in my files. If it helps.

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I forgot I had this documentation in my files. If it helps.

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Lauri, are both pieces pictured in the 1st document awards, I can not read what is written as English is my only language.
Mike
 
There is one of these badges & document for swimming up for sale in the upcoming auction... really nice looking badge! Starting price Euro 4500.-

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