5 New Hitler Youth Tinnies

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Heran

Heran

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Hi all,

So there you go, back on Business with Tinnies, which are my great fascination und drug.

I will be showing you and explaining you step by step each one.

The 5 Tinnies are:

- Ski Meisterschaft 1933 1934 Gebiet Hochland
- Hochland-Lager 1934. (I know, I really know, very Polemic)
- 2. Gebietsaufmarsch Nordsee (7) Bremen 1937. Nordsee HJ dankt der alten Garde
- Nordmark Lager Gebiet 6 1935 - Das Jahr der Ertüchtigung
- Werbewoche der Hitler-Jugend Bann 80 Wiesbaden (I believe it is an early one from 1933-1934)

Regards

Antonio

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Hi all,

It is time to start with the Polemic. Time to start with the Hochland – Lager 1934.

Did it exist? Did not it exist? Was there any event at all? `

This Badge has been well discussed here:

http://www.hj-research.com/forum/f27/hj-hochland-badge-1934-a-2307/

And still, it is not possible to be sure at 100% if that insignia really existed.

Over the event itself, we have postcards from 1936, see here (Thanks Garry):

http://www.hj-research.com/forum/f34/hitler-youth-posters-postcards-2971/

And also we may have a Proof in this forum too that there was a Lager in 1934 (Thanks Operaman)

http://www.hj-research.com/forum/f54/hochland-lager-1934-a-3609/

So I will leave you with pictures of the Tinnie and then I will continue a bit with a few thoughts.

As usual, your opinions are more than welcome.

Regards

Antonio

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Ok, so we continue with this “Fantasay”(?) / Real (?) Item?

In post number 29 from this thread, Metallwarenfabrik, Jo, well, by now we wall know him, made a comparison of Deschler chips from one original Schemm-Tinnie and the chips used for the Hochland-Lager 1934. It looks like the same form in the E from München.

http://www.hj-research.com/forum/f27/hj-hochland-badge-1934-a-2307/index3.html

But I have been checking all the chips from Hochland 1934 in this Forum and mine too and found that those chips have also something in common (which is not included in the Schemm-Tinnie). There is a small dot after the 9. See the picture attached. It looks like everyone came from the same place?

I have also taken the front part of the Tinnies and put them together without seen a major difference, maybe the details from number 2 are not so good (mountains) but it could be the light.

But once again, we have nothing, only opinions and “feelings”. Still, it is now in my collection and happy to have it. I can not say that it is original.

Regards

Antonio.

PS: I will talk later about the other Tinnies.
PS2:Source used for the pictures (all located in this Forum)
http://www.hj-research.com/forum/f27/hj-hochland-badge-1934-a-2307/
http://www.hj-research.com/forum/f27/hochland-lager-1934-badge-2277/
http://www.hj-research.com/forum/f55/hj-hochland-badge-1934-a-2303/

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Antonio, i have no problems at all with the pin plate. IF this badge exsisted? i dont know, but maybe the whole Hochland Lager "thing" is suspect because of some others being fakes, ie. the fantasy enameled green badge that WAS available as a Plakette but not as the modern reproductions badges. (some even have separate numbers stamped into the fronts)
This sort of thing has happened before and its a real shame because it has screwed up certain rare items that people just dont know anymore if they were even made during the TR period.

The badge you made reference too, the cheap Hans Schlemm tinnie/commemorative badge, well it is always good to pick up small items like this to study, nobody wants them for €10.- even for €3.- nobody will be interested.. and they are certainly not faked, so good items to use when looking at styles of pin plates etc...

But just because the pin plate is the same, (it is just not possible, or feasable to fake such a small impregnation fault of 0,3mm on a pin plate.. if we were talking about a 20,000 item OK, but not on a item like this that is not rare) is still not, In my opinion, any 100% proof that they are real. There could also be many other reasons for this:
-Deschler was faking medals before and during the TR period so they had expirience in reproducing
-Deschler was not completely bombed out and many of their dies/tools survived
-Deschler still produced small badges for many decades after the war
-We know, that makers like Steinhauer und Lück, (on the same level as Deschler) reproduced TR items for many decades after 1945 as well.. (food for thought)
​

So as much as there is a good feeling about this badge because of the pin plate, there are also just as many resaons why it could still be viewed as "suspect"
Really the only way to go with this is to find a period reference of sorts, newspaper, announcemnet etc....or picture/listing in a Deschler catalog..

I have an idea that can help here, is it possible for you to upload really large pictures of just the diamond?, just the enamel... in fact just the red enamel....
 
Hi Jo,

Thanks for your answer. Good to see you here.

I have made a few pictures, unfortunately with not a good quality (Handy) but maybe they are useful.

Once again, thanks for your comments. Of course they make me (and many of us) thinking.

Best Regards

Antonio

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Antonio, i Like what i see :yo: (am i starting to sound like Facebook now? )
Its no secret that Deschler used a common background pattern on all their small badges from the beginning until deep into 1935. (After the RZM really took over badges and patterns became standardized and they too had to change) Even on the Golden party badges you can see the same background, and the examples below are taken from 7 original Deschler party badges from around 1925 to late 1935 (ranging from 10 mm in size to 23 mm) even possibly early 1936, and they ALL show what i am talking about, not your standard Bubble, or Rice shaped background, but the Typical Deschler gravel, or wavy background. For a party badge collector, even if you see a badge that has no makers details on the reverse, the front of a Deschler badge will automatically be recognized as a Typical deschler.

And this is what i am seeing here (i think-with the small images) the background is like rough gravel, and not normal big bubbles/rice dots etc.....
So for me, this would be a 100% confirmation that at least this badge was indeed made by Deschler, everything would fit well, the Plate and markings, as well as the small background pattern as well as the year 1934.
I know this does still not mean it is real, but when you start looking for evidence, and find reason upon reason why it is, what it is pretending to be, ( in this case pretending to be made by Deschler...) is really 100% and confirms to what we know about how Deschler made badges, then i see evidence mounting so far that it is Genuine, and no evidence so far that it is not genuine.

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info and i have more from 37 38 and i think 39 if i can find it but this is no profe that any tinnie or table medal was given to the youth and i have post stamps from every year


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Hola Jo...Brutal, your answer was brutally good, egal the result. Well documented and easy to understand and read. Excellent!! Thanks.

This is the great answer even if the answer is negative.

Thanks also Railhouse for your document. Really interesting. Nice to see a documento from 1935. Happy Days.

Regards

Antonio
 
Hi all,

So, we continue with the next Tinnie, but first, feel free always to make a comment about previous Tinnies.

The next Tinnie is a common one, the Aufmarsch for Nordsee from 1937. As you know, the Gebiet number 7. There are 2 versions from this Tinnie, in Aluminium and in Zinc. This is the aluminium version made by Wilh. A. Jager, Frankfurt a. M, with RZM code and licence M9/116.

As you can see here in the list of Bann for 1937, in the link below(*), there were 19 Bannen, being the main city, Bremen (Bann 75).

http://www.hj-research.com/forum/f69/1937-bann-list-sorted-gebiet-290/

There is also a sentence in German, which translated in English means: “The HJ from Nordsee say thanks to the Old Guards.”

Well, I think all the information, or almost all have been already “extracted” from the Tinnie. We go to the next one.

Regards

Antonio

(*)If you can not see the link, is because you are not a member. We are talking about the whole Bann Lists from 1934 to 1942, and now, think if it is not better to pay 20 euros a year to see them.

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glad you like them antonio and they have gone to a good home i was never in the field of buying fakes but do understand as we all know we get caught from time to time and as for hockland lager camps i have had quite a few items in the past and have always been good

steve
 
Hi Steve,

THANKS, thanks for everything. Before buying this Item, I knew the history behind, and still, I love it.

THANKS for the great emails and things that I bought from you and also your gifts.

And SORRY for Arsenal!!

And now, I will keep doing what I love, and that is, talking about Tinnies. They are not just pieces of metal; they have a history and plenty of information behind.

Now we are going to see the Bann 80 Wiesbaden Tinnie. This Bann belongs to the Gebiet 13, Hessen Nassau and in 1934; there were 20 Bannen in total in that Gebiet.

This Tinnie has no date, but it is clear to see that this Tinnie has to be an early one. It says “Werbewoche der HJ”, meaning, “Promotion Week of the HJ”. Also we see the early symbol (or similar) of the HJ on the left up corner.

I have no idea why that design was chosen. Wiesbaden has nothing to do with the see, just check a map. Maybe it was a way to attract kids “promote” camps and marches to the see? No idea.

So, I have 2 more Tinnies to show…. Later, before the Sevilla game.

Regards

Antonio

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Hi all,

Let’s go to the next Tinnie. A lovely (also common) Gebiet 6 Nordmark – 1935.

It has also a lovely design with the Leistungsabzeichen in the middle. There is an inscription on the side, which says: Das Jahr der Ertüchtigung, in English: The Year of Training or the Year of Toughening up.

This Gebiet had 13 Bannen in 1936 and just 5 from them belonged to Hamburg. But also the city of Kiel was in this Gebiet.

One more Tinnie to be shown.

Regards

Antonio

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hochland lager 34

Hi some more info

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Nice tinnies the Wiesbaden one also comes with a silver finish as well as gold
Mametz
 
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