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  1. #21
    Berliner Auktionshaus - also think they are real. Sold for €155.- plus their 20% commission and plus their horrendous postal charges at least €200.- some poor sod got burnt on the blue HJ pin as well...
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  2. #22
    Bunker Militaria also think they are real. Yours for only $175.-
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  3. #23
    Just going back to the thread referenced by Brian in this thread; he asks some good questions. These were in response to a claim from another member who says his (numbered, non-enamel) badge for the 1936 Hochlandlager came from the original wearer:

    hoch.jpg

    1. Why would an event tinnie have a serial number?
    2. Why are there Hochlandlager 1936 badges in higher quality around which don't have serial numbers?
    3. Is there any evidence that these badges existed?
    4. Why are there no other numbered badges for events like this from other HJ Gebiete? Why just Gebiet Hochland?
    5. If these numbered badges are authentic, are any award criteria known?
    6. An award serial number in the 5000 range when the total number of participants was 8000?

    I certainly couldn't answer the questions Brian poses and neither could the badge owner. I am unaware of any documentation that would support the claim that these were awarded and as Brian says, 5000 badges with serial numbers when the total attending was 8000? If we assume that the badges were numbered sequentially then why? 5000 out of the 8000 were looking after the remaining 3000? A numbered badge for each participant so that they didn't forget "their" number?

    It was suggested on another forum that this was perhaps a sports officials badge. The badge in question had a serial number of slightly over 5000. Well, achievement badge testing took place at the camp but there was already a system in place for that. People had to be qualified to conduct and assess these tests. They already had an official document/permit (Abnahmeberechtigung). Why would they need a numbered camp badge?

    I'm not trying to say here that these tinnies are all rubbish but rather, what are they?

    A period photograph showing someone wearing one of these Hochlandlager badges (with or without serial number) would be really helpful but these have proved very elusive so far. Has anyone come across one?

    There was a magazine published at the time called ""Unser Hochlandlager". That would be good to see.

  4. #24
    ...and un-numbered too, with a different catch. link
    wafun.JPG

  5. #25
    Just on the enamel versions:

    The 1936 badges with enamel are not viewed well by collectors but is there anything to show that an enamel version of the badge was available back then, or indeed that it was not available? Well, the 1934 Hochlandlager in Aidling/Riegsee is covered in detail in a book by Thomas Wagner. The book contains footnotes and includes the recollections of Erich Klein, the former HJ Obergebietsführer who was of course intimately involved with all of the Hochlandlager.

    In the section covering finances, the author notes that badges ("Lagerplaketten") showing the emblem of the Hochlandlager were sold to those attending the event and that they were available in Altsilber or with enamel. He goes on to say that visitors were also able to buy badges; again, in Altsilber and with enamel. He concludes both statements by saying that this was a badge with a pin. His footnote for this section is a local newspaper, Murnauer Tagblatt dated 30.7.1934 which relates to the Hochlandlager "logo". Perhaps the badges are shown? These will, I assume, be the round Deschler badges and something like the non-portable Carl Poellath? Or is the author wrong when he says that all of the badges had pins? Look at this enamel version from the maker Carl Poellath: https://www.HJ-research.com/forum/f9...990/#post49169: Here's another with drilled holes (H. Historika):

    hermH.jpg

    In any case, if there were badges with and without enamel for the 1934 Lager then clearly it follows that there was probably a similar availability for the 1935 and 1936 camps so I think it important to come at the discussion of these badges with the mindset that yes, the precedent set by the 1934 badges means that 1936 badges may well have been available in Altsilber and enamel versions too. This needs to be proven of course but as I say, the 1934 badges set a precedent that can't be ignored.

    hoch6.jpg
    Now, 1936 Hochlandlager badges with stamped serial numbers (left bottom).. The suggestions for why some badges have these obverse serial numbers range from them being for judges to being the wearer's serial number during the camp. Neither of those suggestions makes any logical sense to me but I did find another possible reason. A book or pamphlet "Hochlandlager Wachvorschrift"1 was produced for guard personnel and those on such duties during the 1934 Hochlandlager. This mentions a badge that was produced by Gebiet 19 Hochland and given to visitors to the camp by gate personnel so that their arrival and time of leaving the area could be registered. The guard system was also mentioned in the book "Unser Hochlandlager". Now, this does seem a perfectly good use for a Hochlandlager badge with a strange serial number roughly stamped onto it. A system that worked in 1934 is unlikely to have changed much two years later so perhaps the Hochlandlager 1936 badges with the serial numbers were held in the guard huts and issued to visitors for the duration of their stay in the camp. It makes perfect sense to me but without more evidence it remains a theory. Subsequent edit: the numbers of visitors in 1936 had to be restricted due to the increasing popularity of the Hochlandlager and this might answer the question of why there are serial-numbered badges around in the 5000 range.

    Another subsequent edit (2014): check THIS out. These camps also used paper visitor passes. Or were they always paper? That would make all metal badges instantly suspect.

    Another thing that often comes up is the matter of 1936 badges marked "A Berger, Garmisch". These are considered to be post-war copies as evidenced by Toby's post here: Hochland Lager 1934 badge Does anyone have any background information that could help to confirm the Berger badges as fakes? I don't suspect that they are anything else but fakes but confirmation is always useful.


    1
    BayHStA (Bavarian State Archives), Slg. Varia, 1303/1, Hochlandlager 1934, Wachvorschrift

  6. #26

    Round 1.

    Update.
    A few weeks ago i was able to acquire one of these numbered 1936 badges. It was advertised as a reproduction, (which doesnt mean anything, i am just including this in case the sellers sees me rip his item apart and go Ape on me) i bought it, as a reproduction, thinking that i was once more, tossing good cash out the window - for the greater good of course. I am back in hospital tomorrow morning for a small keyhole operation, and should be back home in the afternoon. I will dedicate the healing procedure - days that follow - to examining this, and showing the finds. stay tooned

    usefakenumbered.jpg

  7. #27

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    good luck with the surgery mate, surround yourself with Green its a healing thing look forward to seeing the results !

  8. #28

    Round 2.

    Well,
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    Last edited by Jo Rivett; 22nd November 2013 at 10:44 PM. Reason: spellink

  9. #29
    Looking forward to the continued analysis Jo

  10. #30
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