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  1. #1

    Und Ihr Habt Doch Gesiegt

    I know almost nothing about these badges. Has anyone looked into them? Who received them? Were they an official badge? I have some regulations on honour badges but this badge is never mentioned alongside them and it would be good to find out more about them in general. Why 1923? The HJ always viewed the organisation as having been created in 1926 so 1923 seems odd..

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  2. #2

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    Quote Originally Posted by Garry View Post
    I know almost nothing about these badges. Has anyone looked into them? Who received them? Were they an official badge? I have some regulations on honour badges but this badge is never mentioned alongside them and it would be good to find out more about them in general. Why 1923? The HJ always viewed the organisation as having been created in 1926 so 1923 seems odd..
    good question gary, will be interesting to hear from our fellow members here on this tinnie/badge. pete.

  3. #3

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    strange to see the year '23 on a HJ badge. I tought it was only 1926 when AH recognized the HJ as the official youth organisation?!

    good question you ask here garry.

    I really don't know but mayby München already used the name earlier ? Or it could be one of the post HJ groups that already had that name in use?

    Hope somebody knows the answer to this one.

  4. #4

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    Indeed, very interesting badges and of striking design, IMHO. Forgive me if I'm telling you what you already know but 1923 relates to the Putsch, as does the slogan "Und ihr habt doch gesiegt". HJ members did participate on the march. In fact, a few years back a Blood Order and Jungsturm badge were sold on the WAF E-Stand, both items belonging to the same recipient. If I remember rightly, the recipient was even mentioned in the Patzwall list as being "Jungsturm".

    A silver (800 or better) presentation example of this badge is illustrated in the most recent Johnson "War Booty" book. I will see if I can post a scan of it.

    Best,
    Toby.

  5. #5

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    Regards from Berlin,

    I can not be so long in itnernet. I beleive Toby is right. 1923 is the date of the Putsch in Munich. The monument that is shown in the oin is located at Odeonsplatz, the place where the Putsch was stopped by the police/army.

    14 "nazis" died. But there is a rumour which says that 2 of them were just normal people who were in the wrong place, wrong time.

    Also 3 policemen died, but some "stories" say that they were 4.

    I think it is just another of the "conmemoration" years for the HJ. The perfect excuse to talk to kids about fights, martyrs, blood, Heimat, Deutschland, etc. Perfect history.

    Like the Tinnie dedicated to Schlagater, Düsseldorf 1923. There is another Tinnie conmemorating the 10 years of his dead for his "passive fight" against the French army who occuipaed the Ruhr area in compensation because Germany wasnt paying the money agreed in Versailles.

    Okidoki guys... time to keep helping my "sister in law" with her moving.

    Take care.

    REgards

    Antonio

  6. #6

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    If you're really unlucky, I'll find a photo of me standing on the steps of the Feldherrnhalle (the monument depcited on the badge)!

  7. #7

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    I thought that the Feldhernnhalle was destroyed during the war from bombing .

  8. #8

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    Not that I'm aware of Joe.

    Loads of photos here (period and present day):

    Munich

  9. #9

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    this badge also comes in a solid back and a hollow back version , i believe it was issued in munchen to members of the HJ in 1933 to commemorate the 10th year anniversary of the pusch,

  10. #10
    Thanks guys. Yes, I would agree - this can only be related to the commemoration of the Putsch. The RJF would never have permitted a date earlier than 1926 to be used in relation to the HJ so this can't be a pure HJ badge.

    The regulations don't mention this badge at all as I say so I'm assuming that it can only be a day badge which was given to/bought by those who attended a particular event as Stu says.

    The German dealers call this a 'tradition badge' but that does seem to be rather a grand title for a badge which doesn't appear in a large regulation directly related to such items. I wonder if that is the name given to the badge in a Wittmann (the maker) catalogue?

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