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  1. #191
    Hi Diro, and welcome to the HJ forum.
    This is the one that C.Ailsby has posted, and published, as being genuine. Personally i dont think anything about it is genuine.

  2. #192

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    I know your opinion about badges with silver mark, but this badge was found in Russia in a very old collection (other badges were 100% originals), and it looks "in hands" like a real item, without a doubt! May be it's time now to recognize, that the sign in silver existed? Ailsby also identified this badge like the original!

  3. #193
    Hi Diro

    The obvious problems here would be:

    The author you are referring to, is very unreliable, and the many mistakes he has printed, as well as the many fake badges he has shown in a recent book of his from 2010, have not just been challenged, in recent print, but outed for what they are, as fakes from an author who really does not know that much about the subjects he choses to write about.
    See The Party Badge P.506-512

    The next problem is that you cannot mass-authenticate. Most websites have good items, and fakes, collections too. Where this item comes from, has nothing to do with anything, and most certainly not a reason to, as you suggest:
    May be it's time now to recognize, that the sign in silver existed.
    When new, documented evidence is found, tangible facts, then, that is when it is time to debate on something. Not recognize, debate. All the evidence we have to date, and there is quite a bit of it, points to this badge being in nothing else than solid gold, as the few known examples of it show.

  4. #194
    FROM an OLD COLLECTION, nothing scares me worse than that catch phrase other than vet bringback. Never be sucked in by these dealer ploys investigate make yourself a professional on the item then an only then pull the pin. as JO SAYS there is no period evidence to support this.

  5. #195

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    the problem is 1945 was nearly 70yrs ago, so how do we define a very old collection, a collection from 50yrs ago can be easily considered a very old collection yet that is still 20yrs after the reich had fallen and in those 20 yrs there was plenty of fakes starting to show up

  6. #196
    Extremely well said Stu. We have all seen plenty of dodgy items in "old collections" in our day. The item should stand on it's own, period. Where it was sourced from matters not IMO.

  7. #197
    Common knowledge fakes where being made even before the war ended in liberated countries to supply the demand for souvenirs.

  8. #198

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    "Old collection" sounds unconvincing, if to clarify, a man has been collecting an insignia of Third Reich right after war, an in Russia it was a very risky activity! After he died, his family made a decision to sell the collection. and a friend of mine who collects post cards and other antiques, just bought all the items and badges with "hakenkreuz" for me, because he know, that I 'am interested in Reich collecting. Therefore, it was not a dealer, and price for HJ badge was symbolical.

    The badge has the “traces of carrying” and it is obvious that badge has been produced in a very high quality, so when I found the pictures of similar Badge on this forum (I mean Stan badge, which came from family), I was very glad, that “a brother” of my badge at last was found!

  9. #199
    Good morning reality

    The normal HJ membership badge = HJ Mitgliedsabzeichen
    The HJ honour badge = HJ Ehrenzeichen
    The HJ badge in gold with oak leaves = Das Goldene Ehrenzeichen der HJ

    So you see, the names actually tell you, that there was not a silver version of this prestigious badge. Documents tell us this, the known examples show us this. And that is all there is to say about it

  10. #200
    I just added a couple of badges to the thread which lists recipients of the Goldenes Ehrenzeichen der HJ and came up with something of interest for this thread. I'll be lazy and just paste it here:

    Quote Originally Posted by Garry
    And another: Gebietsführer Wilhelm Kohlmeyer. He was a member of the Reichstag and his bio says the following:

    "...Träger des Goldenen Ehrenzeichens der NSDAP Nr. 23424 und des Goldenen Ehrenzeichens der HJ. Nr. 15"

    This is potentially very interesting because we haven't yet accepted that this HJ honour badge had a serial number. I'm thinking here of badges like this:

    Golden HJ Honour Badge with Oak leaves.

    and this:

    Golden HJ Honour Badge with Oak leaves.

    Could it be the case that the solid gold versions and badges like those at the above links co-existed after all? Were the solid gold versions simply a higher status version of the same award?

    This Gebietsführer knows the serial number of his badge but that number wasn't noted on the award certificate or stamped onto the badge as far as we know (certainly not onto those made of gold). Was he awarded one of the types shown at the above links?

    Perhaps it could be argued that because of its colour, people called the normal HJ honour badge "golden HJ honour badge" but even from the very first announcements about this badge on the RJF Verordnungsblatt it was simply called "HJ-Ehrenzeichen. With this in mind, Kohlmeyer's bio seems to be hinting that he did indeed get the oakleaf version. Whether that was in 585 gold or not is something for discussion.

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