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  1. #71

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    WELL THANK YOU AGAIN, and I repond to your observations:

    Quote Originally Posted by Metallwarenfabrik View Post
    i guess best to stick to this HJ golden Leafy badge.. Let me ask you, page 98, the badge with the 835 silver stamp, why would it have 835 on it? it`s plated, and badly plated, the plating is falling off, are Silver plated items usually stamped like this? are German items usually stamped. like this ?"
    THE FIRST POINT, WHY STAMPED .835, WELL THIS WAS ONE OF THE SIVER GRADE MARKS USED IN GERMANY AT THE TIME. You will find that it was commonly used. So the piece is made of silver grade .835. IT IS NOT SILVER PLATED. It is mercury guilded. The colour is due to the copper in the silver patinating. You find this on Eagle Orders. You are correct that silver plated items are not marked in this manner. As to factual evidence, the funeral pillow of Dr Fritz Todt shows this form of badge on it. The other form of badge is that illistrated in Dohle, this is in the 3 volumes, 1940. 1943 and 1944. It is also the designe that is shown on the citation. This I think is hard evidence, period, of the badge in two distinct forms. Buy back to the badge you consider to be silver plated, this form is found in gold, silver guilt and zinc. These are shown in the book. The form as shown in picture 185 and 186 is clearly defined as Possible Fake. I would say, "you need to have it in hand to be sure".

  2. #72
    A COLLECTORS GUIDE.. that's the name of the book. a book to Guide collectors. Surely you must realize that you have a responsibility to research everything you write to the fullest before publishing, in 2010 ! How can a book like this, filled with nothing but your opinion be helpful?
    The funeral pillow as "factual evidence" my leg leg, you are trying to use a minute black and white photo as Proof?

    • Give us one period mention that these badges were available in Gold, silver and Zinc ?

    N° 185 and 186 are Common fakes, Fantasy mm too BM 1/120....they can be found on this forum, outted as Common fakes, so why you would write POSSIBLE fake is beyond me, and why you would need to have a Fantasy marked badge in hand in order to say for sure, is also beyond me. Evidence of a lack of research and knowledge about period makers marks here maybe ?

  3. #73
    very interesting debate with some very concerning statements. As I am not familiar with this book and probably will not be a buyer , may we have the name of the author so I can investigate and make some determinations on what has been said here. Warlord must have a real name not just a cover



  4. #74

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    Quote Originally Posted by Metallwarenfabrik View Post
    The funeral pillow as "factual evidence" my leg leg, you are trying to use a minute black and white photo as Proof?
    Well I have the original copy of the photo, this is of high clarity and 10 by 8. The picture is clear of the badge. As to the reason for the diferent materials the badge was constructed in is not recordered. This is not an unusual occurrance. The German Order was constructed in Tomback and silver. As to makers and marks this is something I have studied in some depth. You have not still addressed your observations on the silver grade mark and the fact you state the badge shown was silver plated and that this was poorly done and flaking.

    As to the coment,POSSIBLE fake, I think this is a clear indication that I believe it to be wrong.

    As to the first type shown, what more evidence do you require than the illitration in Dohle and it being on the document.

    Again I say, "you need the piece in hand", observation of the photo of the funeral pillow will show the badge in clarity. Again your thoughts of the badge being silver plated. That again would prove the point. The silver grade, you should be aware of this mark and grade.

    Again I extend the invertation to see the collection and make your n hand observations.

    I have attached an award citation showing the first type
    Attached Images Attached Images

  5. #75
    You answer this question....

    Quote Originally Posted by Metallwarenfabrik View Post
    • Give us one period mention that these badges were available in Gold, silver and Zinc ?
    With THIS ?
    Quote Originally Posted by WARLORD View Post
    As to the reason for the different materials the badge was constructed in is not recorded. This is not an unusual occurrence.
    So you reached this assumption, wrote about, authenticated and Pictured three variants as Genuine, based on what was "not an unusual occurrence" ?
    The wife's correct, i do smoke too much pot.

    When i finally get round to finishing my book, i could, based on your statement here, have a certain Mr B, in Birmingham, make me a handful of variations of a fantasy badge .. and publish them all as being Quote: Extremely scarce, and mumble on as to the "fact" that originals are known in Window putty, Plaster of Paris and play dough... after all, i am sure that all three were used in 1935.

    I am not going to continue wasting Forum-space here and argue with you about your Published personal opinion, because when i take the rest of the book into consideration,that's all it is, your personal opinion. Nothing wrong with that, you are allowed one, but to publish it as Fact, in 2011..... and be arguing about it online.....? no, i`ll pass for the moment.
    to be continued... just not on this forum.

  6. #76

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    Well I read your thoughts with interest. Again I ask you to comment on your assumptions of the badge being silver plated and this is flaking of. Again, the silver grade .835. Also the point of period photo of the funeral pillow.

    Innuendos to:

    Quote Originally Posted by Metallwarenfabrik View Post
    ...have a certain Mr B, in Birmingham, make me a handful of variations of a fantasy badge .. and publish them all as being Quote: Extremely scarce, and mumble on as to the "fact" that originals are known in Window putty, Plaster of Paris and play dough... after all, i am sure that all three were used in 1935.
    These are sure the thinking of a person who maybe not quite with it. Again I invite you to visit and view the collection and the photos. If this not be the case, I would be happy to bring them on my next trip to your region, I take it is The Switz and you can view there.

    As an aside I take it you have these in your collection to study? We then can compare the items, back to my old saying, "have to have in hand."

    Your comments on the document I posted, clearly showing the first pattern badge. The group this came with is with out doubt original. Came from the family.

  7. #77
    Okay JOE have done some homework and now totally understand where you are coming from here. I encourage all members here to attend the forum WAF and type in CRISTOPHER AILSBY for a detailed look at what is going on. It would seem many members there have done an old fashioned book burning of anything titles by this individual now banned on WAF which ain't easy to do.



  8. #78
    i AM GOING TO TEMPORARILY HOST THIS LINK FROM WAF very interesting read and may give more insight to what is going on here


    Wehrmacht-Awards.com Militaria Forums



  9. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by WARLORD View Post
    Again I invite you to visit and view the collection and the photos. If this not be the case, I would be happy to bring them on my next trip to your region, I take it is The Switz and you can view there.
    ..... We then can compare the items, back to my old saying, "have to have in hand."
    .
    No amount of visiting, comparing badges and having badges in hand can make up for the lack of Evidence in your HJ Golden badge article. It`s not just a lack, it`s a total non existence of anything period, anything documented, anything mentioned...anything! All your three badge article is, is your own Opinion based on having these badges in hand, supported by the notion that because other badges/awards were available in different materials, therefore these were too. When we look at other similar awards of status, the Golden Party Badge, (sorry to break it to you, but they were only made in gold washed (some same fire gilded) metal, and not in Silver) for example, with a possible 22,000 made, (each member may have had more sets, 22,000 could easily be 50-80,000) and all made in the same metals, then why should we believe that these, 250-400 awarded special oak leafy badges were made in Solid Gold, silver and Zinc ? If we were contemplating an award like the ISA, yes, something like this if we leave out the solid gold and silver? It is just not reasonable, and there are no parallels we can draw between items of this High Status that were made in Metals ranging from Solid Gold through to zinc, it just did not happen, there are no such parallels, the idea is not realistic.

    • Or maybe you can give us an example of a very High Class award, that is known to have been manufactured in Solid Gold, Silver and then Zinc?

    If this was your opinion based on a few similar period facts, OK, it would be worth debating, but it`s just your opinion.

    Quote Originally Posted by WARLORD View Post
    As to a list, that is something I am working on now. Got about 30.
    • Is there any particular reason that none of these 30 names are mentioned in your Article ?

  10. #80

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    Quote Originally Posted by Metallwarenfabrik View Post
    • Is there any particular reason that none of these 30 names are mentioned in your Article ?
    Yes, the publisher gave the number of pages, words number and picture number. Would have loved to have put the list in.

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