Let's talk about the HJ Honour badge for Distinguished Foreigners - HJ Ehrenzeichen für Verdiente Ausländer

Garry

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This is a thread dedicated to collating information on the HJ Honour badge for Distinguished Foreigners (HJ Ehrenzeichen für Verdiente Ausländer). It is part of our series on 'Annoying HJ collectibles'

Add your links to other discussions, evidence, pictures - anything that will help in building a compendium of information on these items for quick reference.

This post will act as the collecting point for information and it will be updated as information comes in from your posts below.
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EDIT: As this thread has evolved during the last 8 years, we have accumulated many of these. Sold by dealers, shown on fora, sold by auction houses and so on. Below is an updated image of the badges we have found to date. As new badges are found, so this main image will be continually updated. If you would like to know where each badge was found for sale, or shown for discussion, see the posts in this thread.


FOUND & SHOWN ON THIS THREAD SO FAR

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Craig Gottlieb Militaria Auctions

Strange that Gottlieb would change his colors and sell the fakes for what they are..when everyone around him is selling them as REAL. (note the many threads on this forum to dealers like Collectors Guild etc who sell the colored ones as good)
Up for aution now... for those who want one..

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This is going to one of the most difficult of the 'Annoying Collectibles' series I think because the only evidence that has ever been offered is anecdotal. Two people have reported receiving these badges from veterans; Weinand (two badges) and a third from a collector who got his from a Norwegian man who was awarded the badge in 1941 (I'm not 100% sure of that date) and these badges are the benchmarks against which all others are measured. What it would be great to see would be some solid information but my understanding is that no useful period information on these badges is known.

What worries me is the tiny 'gene pool' of three badges which make the Distinguished Foreigner a perfect target for fakers. Collectors tend to check only three things:

it must be the brown version
it must have no maker on the reverse
the rivets must match those on the three examples mention above.

I don't recall seeing any discussion of other aspects of the badge. Has anyone ever looked at the enamel? I'd love to see your micro-authentication being done on a few of these badges Jo.
 
This is going to one of the most difficult of the 'Annoying Collectibles' series I think because the only evidence that has ever been offered is anecdotal. Two people have reported receiving these badges from veterans; Weinand (two badges) and a third from a collector who got his from a Norwegian man who was awarded the badge in 1941 (I'm not 100% sure of that date) and these badges are the benchmarks against which all others are measured. What it would be great to see would be some solid information but my understanding is that no useful period information on these badges is known.

What worries me is the tiny 'gene pool' of three badges which make the Distinguished Foreigner a perfect target for fakers. Collectors tend to check only three things:

it must be the brown version
it must have no maker on the reverse
the rivets must match those on the three examples mention above.

I don't recall seeing any discussion of other aspects of the badge. Has anyone ever looked at the enamel? I'd love to see your micro-authentication being done on a few of these badges Jo.


Äääääääh, but are collectors also taking "other" things into consideration? like the FACT, that the Adler, MUST WIGGLE!! on these? LOL....
Micro-pics..you mean Badge forensics? well the clowns that wont believe history, are certainly not going to believe Forensics, after all, that stuff should be limited to a court of law, and has no place in our hobby !
 
is it me or is it all the same names that pop up with these so called veteran finds all the time
 
is it me or is it all the same names that pop up with these so called veteran finds all the time
Trace any Fantasy back, and the same names crop up...thats why the ITEM must be discussed, and not the name, otherwise alarm bells start ringing when the same names crop up, ALL THE TIME!

Garry, you know how much credibility i give a Wein-land vet story? ZERO, in fact as soon as i hear a vet story come from his mouth, for me at least, its Instant proof that it is made up.
Badge Forensics would of course settle any debate, but i am not about to invest 800 or more in crap that we all know is crap, just to prove to others that they are crap, because if they wont accept HISTORY as good enough reasoning, then why the flipping hell should they listen to me? All i would be doing would putting 800.- into the Monkey-Banana-Kasse... i would be feeding them...perish the thought... Hoo-hoo-hoo-hoo-hääääääääääääää :sad:
 
I know. That's just me on a day trip to Utopia again :) Do you fancy throwing my red one under the microscope? I know you're busy at the mo but at least we would have some facts on the fake badges. The results would be very useful because up to now there has been no in depth analysis of the sweetshop badges. All people ever talk about is what Gottlieb says there.
 
I know. That's just me on a day trip to Utopia again :) Do you fancy throwing my red one under the microscope? I know you're busy at the mo but at least we would have some facts on the fake badges. The results would be very useful because up to now there has been no in depth analysis of the sweetshop badges. All people ever talk about is what Gottlieb says there.

You own..a...red..badge? you fell for it? you FED THEM ? shame on you ... :pound: Sure send away
 
Yep :) I didn't believe the stories back then so I took a chance although I have never touted mine as an original.

Cool. I'll get it packaged up and on the way to you in the next couple of days mate.
 
Analysis of the badge Garry sent to me

Analysis of Garry's badge:

Before i upload pics of the relevant parts, i`ll share a few strange oddities.

The relevant parts are:

1. Obvious wear and tear, & Patina on the protruding parts - the places that would first come into any contact with clothing/handling etc..
2. Patina on the lip of the attachment plate - also a protruding, or raised part of the reverse that would first have come into contact with any clothing/handling and must, if it was worn, show patina/usage
3. Needle bar surface - If it was taken off, put on etc - then the surface of the needle bar must show this
4. Enamel - is it period glass enamel? Soft enamel or epoxy?
5. Outer rim on the obverse - the first place that any "worn" item will show patina. If it was worn, it will show it was.
6. General patina (scratches, wear and tear) on the surface of the reverse - has it just been rolling aound in the drawer? or has it has the wear added over a long period - and a patina.

EDIT: 30.01.2019 - See post 157 of this thread, for deatiled microscopic videos of this badge, the same research done 7 years later with much better microscopes!

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Although the eagle - diamond - has been added using three holes drilled somewhat off-center on the reverse, and as many say "had a small amount of solder "dripped" into the larger holes to affix it, this has also been glue on, or affixed on using some kind of glue behind the two parts. Around the eagle this is visible in many places. Is this the way Period German "parts" items were placed onto enamel badges? Glued as well?

There is also a fault with the letter D, with parts of it missing - something that would be visible on "others" made using the same die. NOt that this is unusual, just saying :001_cool:

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1. Obvious wear and tear, & Patina on the protruding parts - the places that would first come into any contact with clothing/handling etc..

Can you see the "obvious" wear and tear on these protruding parts? the natural patina? can you? because i cant :swiss... because its just not there. What is there though, is the typical thin layer of silver coating that flakes off - observed on reproduction badges.

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And the inside tips of the eagles wings ... where did the patina go? if nobody here is going to admit to "stealing" it, then i`d have to say it was never there to begin with. (all i am seeing is the typical bad -corrosion -metal and thin coating found on fakes that have never been worn)

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2. Patina on the lip of the attachment plate - also a protruding, or raised part of the reverse that would first have come into contact with any clothing/handling and must, if it was worn, show patina/usage

Any patina here? being a raised part of the reverse, a part that would have first come into contact with any clothing - there must be. Anyone know whats happened to it? coz it aint here. (The red rimmed image is an original plate, showing the usual wear around the lip and the surface)

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3. Needle bar surface - If it was taken off, put on etc - then the surface of the needle bar must show this

One of these images show an original pin bar surface, the other is from this HJ badge - can you guess which one has been worn, taken off, put on, 100 times?

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4. Enamel - is it period glass enamel? Soft enamel or epoxy?

Its not epoxy, but its also not period Glass enamel. It shows all the traits of soft enamel, with no colored particles (as you will find on original German badges), but burn-holes and rubbish that has stuck to the surface after it came out of the kiln. The "polishing" marks are also typical of reproductions, and not found like this on genuine badges. The first image shows fragments of metal, a sure indication that the item is a reproduction - and something that you will not find on period badges.

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Just as the rim, and reverse, captures all the knocks of life, the glass surface will as well. A period German glass enameled surface looks like this., with not only the score-marks left after polishing visable, but also the "honest patina" the knocks of life.

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5. Outer rim on the obverse - the first place that any "worn" item will show patina. If it was worn, it will show it was.

No patina, just corrosion. If this was the rim of a badge i considered authentic, after seeing these, i would have to change my mind. It looks nothing like a period badge, and everything like a reproduction.

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6. General patina (scratches, wear and tear) on the surface of the reverse - has it just been rolling aound in the drawer? or has it has the wear added over a long period - and a patina.

Left a picture of the reverse of a genuine small badge, showing the honest patina. On this? (right image) well see for yourself.
There are plenty of scrapes from it rolling around in a drawer, but none of the scrapes have any kind of patina of their own, just small nicks that cover the whole surface of the reverse

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