Let's talk about the HJ Honour badge for Distinguished Foreigners - HJ Ehrenzeichen für Verdiente Ausländer

There is an answer and that is to examine other badges. There is no dispute that the badge existed but as you both say, which are the real ones? That can be established through examination as you did with my fake badge Jo.
yes, i would say with 100% certainty as well, But who would want to spend 1 few hundred on a microscope to see ? the same people who were prepared to spend a few thousand because they thought their badge was real? because you know, as much as Forensics is accepted worldwide in every court, it naturally will not apply to the hobby of collecting militaria, it wont even be used as a guide by many, because in this hobby, the truth, usually means that someone looses money, or credibility, or both.
Now a microscope with an EK laser cut into the side, and a dedication to Jakob Grimmiger - in pure Silber - that might work for some, but naturally will only apply when the item is deemed good.
 
Not quite sure i understand this? recently sold, all three, for 180 dollah?

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Turn yourself into the Don Boyle of badges mate. It's your technique and you have the experience.

I never thought that my badge was an original so it was easy for for me to have that confirmed by sending it to you but surely there will be at least one person willing to send you a brown badge with no MM? A great candidate in my opinion would be the collector who got his from the norwegian recipient. Does anyone know who that collector is? Colin Davie perhaps? Getting an original under the microscope is vital.
 
but surely there will be at least one person willing to send you a brown badge with no MM?
I know two dealers who have these, and i know them pretty well, so next show i see them at, i`ll ask if i can take the badge with me for a few hours.

A great candidate in my opinion would be the collector who got his from the norwegian recipient. Does anyone know who that collector is?
Don Scowen i think? But he has packed his sieben sachen and does not visit here anymore.
 
Is this a new technique? it seems so logical that I'm surprised that there isn't more discussion on it? What I mean is that these badges get discussed a lot on the forums but nobody has ever thought about looking at the badge like this and ibnstead there is just a lot discussion going round in circles and not really getting anywhere. You could apply that to a lot of items
 
Is this a new technique? it seems so logical that I'm surprised that there isn't more discussion on it? What I mean is that these badges get discussed a lot on the forums but nobody has ever thought about looking at the badge like this and ibnstead there is just a lot discussion going round in circles and not really getting anywhere. You could apply that to a lot of items

Yes, hopefully after my book is published, people will start to use this technique more and more. It surpasses opinion, and cannot be challenged. (If your fingerprints are on the gun, YOU held it, its that simple)
 
Totally agree with your point on opinion, too much of that in collecting and too little substance. I'm new and still reading but this forum seems to lean towards wanting to see proof instaed of just pure opinion. Nice to see

Good luck with your book
 
Admin note: "hohum" is a guy called Colin Davie who has a long-running feud about these badges with someone called Gary Symonds on another forum. Bizarrely, he thinks that I am Gary Symonds...


Yep. Very unsatisfactory state of affairs. The criteria for acceptance are shown very nicely on this thread:

HJ Hitler Youth Foreigners award - Wehrmacht-Awards.com Militaria Forums

It shows that no one has a clue. In lieu of any real evidence the criteria are being stipulated by using the badges from Weinand's vet haul as the datum. Look at the crappy soldering on one of the badges in that thread.

This thread shows that some of them actually did have a clue does'nt it?, the only one on that thread that did'nt was someone called Gary something.
Maybe now you'll xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
As for the forensics, why are we looking for wear patterns on a badge, all of which were supposed to be unissued samples?
Why is there a crap one for sale just now on a big dealers site at 2000 Euros plus that looks like it came thru the campaign in Russia?
Maybe I should send my badge to Jo, xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
C
I will edit to add that as for Jo being the Don Boyle of enamel, this guy said all mothers crosses were pretty much post war fake... right, xxxxxxxxxxxxx
I am looking forward to the NSDAP pin book, I respect him a great deal, wish there was more honest and dedicated collectors like him, but his word is far from gospel, neither is anyone's opinion in this hobby, as I'm sure he would agree.
Will this be moderator edited like WAF?
 
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Send your badge to Jo and have done with the speculation Colin. A PM is on the way to you regarding the tone of your post.
 
The fear of forensics!

Will this be moderator edited like WAF?
Only the swearing and insults have been taken out, along with a few warnings sent your way.
Comparing me to Don Boyle, a good friend of mine i might add, is an honour :swiss
My comments regarding the Mothers Cross`s still stands, but this forum is no place for a conversation pertaining to them.

Do try and make your next post a sensible one, without any insults or swearing, or it may well be your last one.
 
Brown, square plate, no makers marks, being sold as original..... just in case anyone here was interested.

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Colin "Two Accounts" Davie certainly won't be responding to this. After the diva action caused by him over on WAF and GMIC and his subsequent and very embarrassing realisation that he was absolutely and utterly wrong about me being Gary Symonds, I extended the olive branch. He grabbed it but although he was on here every day after that, he couldn't quite bring himself to go the full hog and apologise to this forum for what he did. So, booted.
 
A quick heads up, another two of these, apparently ground dug, up at MILI321 this week.
LINK, images below.

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is it just me or do these seem to be popping up far more frequently these days ??
 
Post 28 needs to be extended to FOUR different versions of the brown badge:swiss
Up for sale this week, yep, on MILI321 again, and yep, another "bodenfund" a DESCHLER marked example..... link

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It's almost as if someone has decided to take advantage of the confusion.
 
someones taking the peas......

Stu, dont laugh....:swiss
It seems, as if ...well, Stu said it 2 months ago... ANOTHER of these rare boys has just been listed on MILI321... and yes, ground dug again...
Auction link images below

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Hi,

I don't look on this forum a lot, mainly because i don't collect much HJ. After running into Jo at another forum i decided to look again and am quite a bit surprised (pleaseantly). This topic for example is very good and i read it with much interest. It sure is an eyeopener and im going to look around a bit more.

I don't want to go further offtopic with this reply, but also read about what was written a few pages back about Motherscrosses. Last year (or is it already longer?) i ran into Jo at the WAF forum and was very sceptical at first, but he has convinced me of the troubles of the many post war made examples and sure set me to thinking then which i am thankfull for. Im still not very experienced with this forum but as this topic about the HJ Honour badge shows it's a good thing to think critical and don't always blindly follow, when someone is right he's right, it's no use to be stubborn and keep holding on to a wrong "truth".

best regards,
Gaston
 
HI Gaston, and welcome to the forum after 4 years of absence :swiss
Actually, this award is like the NSKK badges that i have been on about the past few days. Obviously this badge, is no fantasy. (Neither is the NSKK Kriegskraftfahrerin badge) There are in-wear images known, it is mentioned in period documentation, and certainly was a Third Reich item.
But, little is known about it, and it is found today in many different colors, as well as "variants"

One of these has to be original, but what one? The brown one? well the earliest post war books like R.Kahls for example, do mention only a brown badge. But which variation of the brown badge?, because on this short thread so far, we have seen 4 variants of the brown badge alone, and none of them were being sold as a repro, they were all being sold as original!

Dealers dont know either, Phillip Militaria is selling the Aurich marked brown badge as real, for €2450.- Weitze says only the unmarked brown badges are good (which ones? there are a few different ones?) etc..
What research has ever been carried out on these? to my knowledge none at all. So all there is right now, are many different opinions, on a very rare badge that seems to be all over the place, found regularly ...

A lack of specific in-depth research has not only gotten us into a real mess today, it has also devalued many items. The only way to settle this debate on the HJ foreigners badge, would be to do a micro analysis of the variants known. If one of them is genuine, a micro analysis will show this straight away. Although the "forensic" part is only really covered in great detail in my book, i did start an article here about it a while ago, so that will give you the jist.

The great thing about a micro analysis, is that all reputations are shoved aside, all stories and provenance are disregarded, all post-war publications and collectors magazine articles are ignored, and ONLY the undeniable facts are revealed :thumb: Which is what needs to happen now, because these stories we have been told, and all the things we have just accepted as true, are not necessarily all true, as we will find out in the future - starting with the green NSKK badge, and ending with god knows what!
 
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