RZM 15 Hitler Youth honour badge

Joined
Jul 27, 2011
Messages
3
Thanks Received
0
Hello,
this is the first posting of me in this forum. Please consider that english is not my native language and so I will make a lot of mistakes :001_unsure:

I want to show you an unusual HJ honour badge.

It is heavy worn and the needle was repaired but I think still collectable.

The member number has five digits.

From my point of view the manufacturer mark is quite unusual. There is only RZM in one circle and a "15" in another circle.

The manufacturer should be Ferdinand Hoffstätter, Bonn.

best regards
Pattex

You don't have permission to view attachments.
You don't have permission to view attachments.
 

Attachments

    You don't have permission to view attachments.
Last edited:
Yes, it`s a typical "15" in a round cartouce, only a very few makers that i am aware of used this small round cartouce for their Berechtigungsscheinnummer. (and on the HJ Gold only one)
Downside apart from the bad needle replacement, is that it has been heavily cleaned and polished.:sad:
Yes Ferdinand Hoffstätter did have the N° 15, but, Hoffstätter also knew how to mark his items properly, he was making before even the ZM days, never mind the RZM. These cartouce marked Hoffstätter badges are, IMHO made by a subcontractor, as are the early M1/70,M1/78 and M1/49 ones.
 
Original Hoffstätter.


Jo, what make you think this badge was made by a subcontractor? Someone had to receive the first production of this award and I always assumed it could be Hoffstätter because of the transitional form of marking and the low serial numbers. :help:

Regards, Wim
 
Wim, because hoffstätter just did not mark any badges like this. It is also not a RZM design, or a normal design found on other badges, so it`s unique. And seeing as hoffstätter had years of experience before, it cant be beginners mistake imo. so i tip on them being made elsewhere. I recon the first contract went to either Baumann or Paulmann & Crone. Although they (M1(78, and M1/49 are all from the same period.)
 
Last edited:
Never looked at it this way. It does make sense and could be a good explanation.

Regards, Wim
 
Wim, because hoffstätter just did not mark any badges like this. It is also not a RZM design, or a normal design found on other badges, so it`s unique. And seeing as hoffstätter had years of experience before, it cant be beginners mistake imo. so i tip on them being made elsewhere. I recon the first contract went to either Baumann or Paulmann & Crone. Although they (M1(78, and M1/49 are all from the same period.)

The transitional NSDSTB by Hoffstätter can be found with this marking as well. They are very rare but out there.

Here's mine, unfortunately, because the markings are at the tip of the badge under the pin they are hard to capture with a camera, but both the odd RZM & 15 are there.

Cheers
Don

You don't have permission to view attachments.
You don't have permission to view attachments.
You don't have permission to view attachments.
 

Attachments

    You don't have permission to view attachments.
Last edited:
Nice Don. Although if you remember my post on the Subcontractors a few years ago, i showed that both Party badges and HJ diamond badges were made by subcontractors so it could well be that a few of each were made by someone other than Hoffstätter, although it doesn't really matter, it`s just my opinion, and could of course be wrong.
In any case, the markings are real, and so are the items that's all that counts. We`ll never get to the bottom of the sub-contractor issue , so it`s all "speculative" anyways :001_unsure:

I should change post 4, or elaborate on it, to Not include anything other than a diamond shaped badge, so what it means, is that at this time (1933-1934) hoffstätter was not using this small circle to mark other badges they made like the Round organizational badges or others that would require his transitional number being on them.
 
Last edited:
Hi Jo,

I wasn't disputing that they could be subcontracted out, I just thought that I'd show that the mark was used on another design badge...

Cheers
Don
 
Hi Jo,

I wasn't disputing that they could be subcontracted out, I just thought that I'd show that the mark was used on another design badge...

Cheers
Don
Moin moin Don
Yeah sure.
Another thang to remember as well, is that some makers, even long time makers like Ferd. Hoffstätter, did do some pretty crazy things regarding markings, so maybe they did come from him, maybe the whole reverse design was not important as it should have been and was left up to the guy cutting the die.
In any case, now we have two diamonds marked the same way:good:
 
Thanks for showing that rare bugger, Don. First time I see this marking on another badge then the HJ Honour.

Regards, Wim
 
Thank you very much for the answers!

I don't think that it has been heavily cleaned and polished, but from my bad picture you're right.

Here is a new one :001_rolleyes:.



You don't have permission to view attachments.
 

Attachments

    You don't have permission to view attachments.
Someone had to receive the first production of this award and I always assumed it could be Hoffstätter ....
Wim, maybe Paulmann und Crone?
If you look at the three badges together, #4. is from 1933/4, #5 is from 1934/early 1935 and #6 is from after April 1935.. all the same time period when the first HJ badges marked like this with Ges.Gesch and the RZM logo.
Also, a picture of one for sale now from Paulmann und Crone, also leads me to believe that they may have been the supplier for the others in this style, as well as the RZM 15 badge. If you observe the B markings on that one, you will see that the raised round hump that the B is on, is not only unique in its own way, but is quite like the RZM and 15 markings too, in shape and size. :001_rolleyes:.

You don't have permission to view attachments.
You don't have permission to view attachments.
 

Attachments

    You don't have permission to view attachments.
Wim, maybe Paulmann und Crone?
If you look at the three badges together, #4. is from 1933/4, #5 is from 1934/early 1935 and #6 is from after April 1935.. all the same time period when the first HJ badges marked like this with Ges.Gesch and the RZM logo.
Also, a picture of one for sale now from Paulmann und Crone, also leads me to believe that they may have been the supplier for the others in this style, as well as the RZM 15 badge. If you observe the B markings on that one, you will see that the raised round hump that the B is on, is not only unique in its own way, but is quite like the RZM and 15 markings too, in shape and size. :001_rolleyes:.


Could be treu. Seems someone gahtered a lot of HJ Ehrenzeichen togheter on Weitze. The relative low numbered Deumer is also interesting . :001_cool:

Regards, Wim
 
This is my first post on the forum and I thought I would show a fairly recent acquisition. I have been looking for an HJ badge plus doc for a long time and am very pleased with it. Incidentaly, the young lady's name is Gertrude Jahr and she lived in Pyritz.

Stan

Stan

You don't have permission to view attachments.
You don't have permission to view attachments.
You don't have permission to view attachments.
 

Attachments

    You don't have permission to view attachments.
A nice combination that I saw before, Stan. Took me also a while before I managed to got my own set.


Regards, Wim
 
Back
Top