RZM M1/120 HJ Honour badge (HJ-Ehrenzeichen) - no award serial number

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Hello to all. I'm new here. Is this HJ honour badge an original? It was found i the attic of an old house.



Bin neu im Forum und grüße alle recht herzlich.
Ich besitze einige Abzeichen der HJ. Sie wurden am Dachboden eines alten Hauses gefunden.
Meine Frage: Ist dieses HJ-Ehrenzeichen original ?

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Habe Vergessen: Hersteller ist 122

Bin neu im Forum und grüße alle recht herzlich.
Ich besitze einige Abzeichen der HJ. Sie wurden am Dachboden eines alten Hauses gefunden.
Meine Frage: Sind die Abzeichen original ?
HJ Ehrenzeichen - RZM Hersteller: M1/120 Wilhelm Deumer

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Hi,

Wim, one of our members, will be able to tell you more but I know from his other posts that he has serious doubts about Deumer Ehrenzeichen badges with this type of maker stamp.
 
I break my head for a while with these badges. It's just because they don't fit very well into the Deumer production. Besides that they popped up suddenly in the last two years. It is very weird that they wrote the M1/120 number in a single line. Deumer always placed his "M1" higher then the "120". The manufcturer did this also with his party pins.

One thing is very positive on this badge and that's the fact that the stippling match other Deumers, the same can be said of the appearance in colour. I

Now, there is one possible reason IMO why this badge "could be real" and fit into the production line:

1.Deumer started to produce badges with a normal standard pin (like this one) and give them a serial number. These badges are found today with erased serial numbers. Reverse marking are vertical placed from wearing point of view.
2. B-types were also made with this pin set up. Reverse marking were also placed vertical placed from wearing point of view.
We all know the pin set up had to change because too many badges got lost.
3.The new badge with the safety lock pin made its appreance both with serial number and B -designation. The reverse marking were placed again vertical seen from the wearing point of view.

If the badge with the horizontal placed maker marks is good it has to fit in the period before the demand of the special safety pin lock. And because it is not numbered it has to be a replacement badge. But then it goes parallel with the older B designation (see 2) type?
It also could originate from a hoard of left over badges, which were not used because the change to the safety lock. But I never heard of any hoard.

Many thoughts but not a final conclusion. My advice is that one such badge into your collection is not a big disaster. But don't collect them in numbers.

Regards, Wim
 
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I break my head for a while with these badges. It's just because they don't fit very well into the Deumer production. Besides that they popped up suddenly in the last two years. It is very weird that they wrote the M1/120 number in a single line. Deumer always placed his 'M1' higher then the '120'. The manufacturer did this also with his party pins.

One thing is very positive on this badge and that's the fact that the stippling match other Deumers, the same can be said of the appearance in colour. I

Now, there is one possible reason IMO why this badge 'could be real' and fit into the production line:

1.Deumer started to produce badges with a normal standard pin (like this one) and give them a serial number. These badges are found today with erased serial numbers. Reverse marking are vertical placed from wearing point of view.
2. B-types were also made with this pin set up. Reverse marking were also placed vertical placed from wearing point of view.
We all know the pin set up had to change because too many badges got lost.
3.The new badge with the safety lock pin made its appearance both with serial number and B -designation. The reverse marking were placed again vertical seen from the wearing point of view.
Regards, Wim

Hallo Wim.
Danke für deine ausführliche Antwort. Ich bin mir fast sicher das die Abzeichen original sind. Gefunden wurden sie in einen alten Haus, der neue Besitzer wollte sie wegwerfen.
Er hatte keine Ahnung über ihren Wert.
Sie lagen auf dem Dachboden in einer alten Blechdose.
Liebe Grüße
 
I'm glad you like it. Like a mentioned: nothing wrong to collect one example of this. It's a risk you have to take. I have the same feeling about the M1/70. I only buy more of these as soon as I find solid proof of an example with a Bezitsurkunde.
In fact once I have to take the same risk to buy such horizontal maker marked Deumer to. I's the only way to make a decent comparising with his accepted brothers. That's the difficult with these HJ Honor Awards; there are lots of clear fakes and fewer originals, but also a group that lays right in in the grey misty area... :closedeyes:

a quick summary:

Pro: 1. The typical Demer "look" and finish, 2. The matching stipple pattern

Contra: 1. The crossbar in the "Z" of RZM, 2. The one line placing of the M1/. - number

Regards, Wim
 
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I agree the fakes here are getting so good. One of the first things I look at is the pin and they have these down to a T. These companies had a certain style and look through the war and any variation from that normal style must be treated with extreme suspicion.

:canada1
 
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