Thoughts on this Josef Fuess HJ Honour badge?

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hi all

whats your thoughts on this badge, to me it looks good a real nice badge but and its a big but lol, the badge on the reverse is marked by maker and not an rzm mark and not only that but the maker j fuess is not an accepted maker of this badge as far as im aware i believe he had the number rzm1/95 and i have never seen one of these badges by this maker before

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My thoughts on a badge like this, marked with the Fuess name, with a number in the 28,000`s = 100% dead certain, old reproduction.
 
I thought repro when I first saw it but that's just based on the appearance. Where did you find it Stu?

When did these start appearing Jo?
 
When did these start appearing Jo?
They didn't. Unfortunately lots of collectors today think that the faking of small badges dates back to the beginning of the Internet, and all fakes are therefore easy to spot as such. There are many not often encountered fakes, made long ago, for a market that did not consist of 25 million screaming collectors who go all gooey-eyed as soon as their favorite dealer makes a new Friday Update. The market was tiny back in the day, and i guess thats one of the main reasons why you wont see them, or only seldom see them. And, for the collector who only believes in recent mass faked small badges, a badge like this would automatically be "possible" or real based on that alone, because that`s what some collectors do, you hear it all the time on all the forums, "But this is the only one i have ever seen, if it were fake it would surely be all over the net.." AMEN, case closed, stamp of approval :thumb:

It can be hard at times, and in cases, especially with multi-construction items, it is a mix or real and fake. Thats what i believe you are looking at here on this badge, a genuine and worn HJ diamond in messing, inset into a fake casing with untypical Deschler markings (post-production engravings imo) and a number, when we know, that these were not numbered and make from solid 535 Gold. So i guess even for the dedicated collector it might seem like a brain crunch, when the mind tells you that the badge you are looking at looks genuine, so therefore the whole package must be! But if you look closer, and think rationally, you soon see that it`s a two piece construction and must therefore be judged accordingly. The diamond is possibly genuine, the biggest surface area, but the rest is bogus. A clever fake i guess.

With this Jos Fuess marked badge it is even easier, as there are no pieces of Jewelery or items/badges made by them, that have their actual name on, so we have nothing to go on, except the item. You dont even need close-ups of this, the peeling border, the overall feel, the pin plate, the markings... the visible patina say`s it all really, well for me anyway. Would be great to have as an old fake, but not worth paying much for.
 
No, i was using it as a comparison to this one because it too, is a very old fake, that is also never seen.
 
interesting,hard to call this then its a fake with a percetage of orignal parts ??, the maker had me convinced it was bad from the word go as i know he is not a recorded maker of these badges but from the front the badge looked good and now with jo's explanation i can see why, makes you think had they marked these badges with a known rzm maker they could have got away with them , as they are very good.

would these have come out as early as the 50's then possibly using left over badges and then altering them to make them more appealing
 
Stu, the mixed parts badge is the one with oak leaves that i was referring to. This Fuess marked one is a one piece construction, but bad to the bone. Every once in a while a badge will surface that is out of the ordinary, like the Alte Garde HJ gold badge made by hoffstätter. I remember about 10 years ago the HJ golden badges with the FHB logo and very low numbers were shown, and the argument used that "this is the only one seen to date so it must be real..." but now, you find them up on Beck militaria, and at WAF and other other sites...

Not all collectors are on line, and those that are, not all of them show their stuff on line. Many know that what they have is fake so dont bother, those that want to believe would rather keep quiet and carry on believing, perish the thought of showing it on line only to be shot down in flames. There were only a small handful of makers of the HJ gold badge, and Fuess was not amongst them. It`s that simple. Yes, just take the fake daggers that Atwood and his sort were making back then, very rare today, as well as the fake buckles by that UK forger back in the 1960`s..... there was no market for em mass stuff then, and with the top, and expensive fakes, surely only a few were made and not 100,000`s.
 
For future reference: This badge was sold recently on the Jamie Cross website, for £175 / USD 267.- !
I didnt know this when i posted, but i was tempted many times to say an old UK fake, like many of the upper class fakes created by the UK forgers, Ailsby is one of them, and there are more who are still in business. Jamie does have some nice items every now and then, but as i am sure many collectors will attest to, sells a lot, and i do mean A LOT, of post war rubbish as well :)

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it was on there i saw it , it was only listed in his new update last week , so sold very quickly, and i agree he does have some decent stuff but a lot of fakes too just like most dealers lol.

as for the honor badge sorry i confused your post, as i said, as far as im aware ther are only 6 known makers so anything else is always treated as with doubt until proven otherwise

m1/49 adolf baumeister
m1/52 deschler & sohn
m1/70 franz otto
m1/78 paulmann & crone
m1/120 deumer
and
Hoffstätter mm "15"
 
m1/49 adolf baumeister
m1/52 deschler & sohn
m1/70 franz otto
m1/78 paulmann & crone
m1/120 deumer
and
Hoffstätter mm "15"
Thats how i see it as well, with at least 1 sub-contractor having his finger im spiel.
The hoffstätter Alte Garde badge is still a mystery, but i dont see anything that would point towards it being a fake or fantasy.
 
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