Authenticity of HJ knife?

[Como]

I was looking around the internet at various dealer websites last night, and found one dealer selling a knife (at a quite high cost) that made me look twice. I have been collecting HJ for a fer years but do not consider myself an expert as there is ALWAYS more to learn.

But here is my question, was there ever a 'motto' HJ knife offered with no diamond on the grip? The seller describes it as "scarce variant", which it very well may be, but I've never seen one. So this seemed the place to talk about it. The seller is respected in many circles so I do not want to insinuate that he/they are trying to 'con' anyone. It's just a knife I have never seen before.

Looking forward to opinions. If it has been discussed before, my apologies.

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[RussellM]

Please advise who the dealer is, either by pm or here.

Regards

Russ

 

[RussellM]

And no, it is most certainly not a 'scarce variant'.

Regards

Russ

 

[RussellM]

And if you don't wish to name the dealer, ask him for proof of the claim that it is a scarce variant, ie: pic in a period catalogue, the regulation saying this was allowed etc. And what is the price please?

Regards

Russ

 

[RussellM]

Como, it's a "DJ" sized knife which makes it even more wrong.... You could have mentioned that!

And it is implied that because they haven't seen one in 50 years of collecting, it is a 'scarce variant'... How do they know that??

The Ruptured Duck for $975

Scarce Variant Hitler Youth Knife with Motto by Anton Wingen Jr. - Here is one in the 50+ years of collecting that I have never encountered before. It is the size of a DJ knife measuring approximately 8 1/2 inches total. The black checkered bakelite grips are devoid of insignia. The hilt is nickel plated retaining approx. 80% of its finish. The black lacquered scabbard has 95% of the original paint. The blade has the motto “Blut und Ehre!”. This is deeply etched into the blade. The reverse of the blade has the Anton Wingen logo in addition to that it is marked GES. GESCHUTZT, which is an indication that this was a patent pending model that was never adopted. The blade itself is in excellent condition. The brown leather belt strap and retaining loop show light wear. A real interesting piece for Hitler Youth collectors.

• Item #: E-487a

 

[Como]

Sorry Russ, didn't mean to anger anyone (not mentioning the knife size), just trying to either learn something new or stop a fake from being sold to someone.

And I don't like to name a dealer and imply that they are pushing a con, unless or until I have proof and and a group agreement that it is wrong and fake.

That is just the way I am.

Regardless, thanks for everyone's input and it's nice to know that my double take was correct. Sometimes I need to remind myself that I've been involved in this hobby for a while now, and to trust my instincts.

BUT, I still believe that there is always more to learn in this hobby, so I feel better sharing it with the forum to make sure that it's bad before I start calling items fakes, when I'm not 100% on it.

Thanks again to everyone for their involvement in the thread.

-Craig

 

[RussellM]

Hey Craig, not angry at all! I was looking at the pics on my phone and couldn't really tell the size!

And I understand your thoughts.

Sadly, and this is just my personal opinion, there is far too much of this sort of thing going on, particularly with these "DJ" type knives. Here you have a definitive statement from the seller: "scarce variant Hitler Youth knife". This implies that it is a known production piece, but perhaps produced in so few documented numbers, that they are scarce. But there is nothing to prove that this claim is correct. It is not even a "Hitler Youth" knife!

Because the dealer is 'well respected', some people will assume his statement to be true, and tip a pile of money into buying it. I've dealt with Bill before, and have found him to be excellent but they don't know everything about everything. It could just be a bandwagon thing, who knows. They can ask whatever price they want for anything, but novice collectors can be easily fooled with this type of description. As I say, just my opinion.

And thanks for posting it!

Regards

Russ

 

[Garry]

Sorry Russ, didn't mean to anger anyone (not mentioning the knife size), just trying to either learn something new or stop a fake from being sold to someone.

And I don't like to name a dealer and imply that they are pushing a con, unless or until I have proof and and a group agreement that it is wrong and fake.

That is just the way I am.

Regardless, thanks for everyone's input and it's nice to know that my double take was correct. Sometimes I need to remind myself that I've been involved in this hobby for a while now, and to trust my instincts.

BUT, I still believe that there is always more to learn in this hobby, so I feel better sharing it with the forum to make sure that it's bad before I start calling items fakes, when I'm not 100% on it.

Thanks again to everyone for their involvement in the thread.

-Craig

You might find these links useful:

https://www.hj-research.com/forum/wiki/?title=DJ-Knife

https://www.hj-research.com/forum/wiki/?title=BDM-Knife

 

[Jo Rivett]

Sorry, but the description on its own, is enough proof to show anyone that they dont have a monkeys...

The reverse of the blade has the Anton Wingen logo in addition to that it is marked GES. GESCHUTZT, which is an indication that this was a patent pending model that was never adopted.

Every monkey and its trainer knows that the German abbreviation GES.GESCH. - stands for Gesetzlich Geschützt. Translated into English, that means PROTECTED BY LAW. That means, that whatever item you find GES.GESCH. on, WAS ALREADY PATENTED!!... already protected

Just another example of a non-German speaker using his own interpretation of the German language as "evidence" for his own, invented stupid theory.
Maybe they are also a graduate of the Wittmann & Johnson fine art of fleecing and inventing fable school? Certainly looks like it.

LINK TO ITEM

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[Jo Rivett]

Now marked SOLD.

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[Eliko]

Really interesting discussion indeed. Thanks guys.