Please login to view user info
Garry, at the Max seminar referred to earlier in this thread, one of the 'big 3' dealers said he had a period photo showing this knife in wear. The photo was going to be provided to Frederick Stephens, who was going to send it to me. To date, the dealer has not been able to 'locate it'...
In itself a photo won't change things sufficiently though as you know. It would be an indication but not proof. As an exercise to prove a point I posted this photo a couple of years ago. I think that it proves that photos can't be relied upon as being the sole method of proving anything. Okay, this is a scan of a photo but I'm sure it wouldn't take much to get this onto some period photo paper if someone really needed a photo to act as proof for a given hypothesis.
1st pic is the original and the second is the photoshop manipulation which took around 30 minutes. If I can add a membership badge to a photo like this and indeed remove detail as I have done with the watermark then anyone can.
Edit: if the owner of the photo is a member here (or if anyone knows who the owner is ) please let me know and I'll remove the pic or add a new watermark.
Good point Garry, and a great example. A photoshop 'artiste' can indeed create anything he wants!
The claims being made about these knives are outrageous, and some people still suck it up.
I guess they need to be further "legitimised" as these people exit their collections with their over-inflated prices and a 'story' with no proof.
I go back to Ron's statement, which is thought provoking - if these are a well known late war variation, how come Ron, who has met thousands of veterans in his motel buys, has only seen 3 or is that 4 of these with the diamond on the scabbard? There should be thousands of these around, just like the correct HJ-DJ fahrtenmesser. It just doesn't add up does it?
No, it definitely doesn't add up Russ. Perhaps people feel forced into defending the knives because they have sold them in the past having really believed that they were period and that they were used/employed by the DJ as described in the original sales pitch. To now admit that they are post-war products or at the very least not what they were described as being at the time of sale would be difficult and might provoke a wave of complaints and requests for return of the moneys paid. That's pure speculation of course but I guess that it's possible.
Garry, I think your pure speculation has much substance!
I've placed a link to this thread on WAF.
What puzzles me the most about these knives is the amount of money people will drop on them, with only opinions and stories as evidence of the period use of them. As for them being directly bought from veterans, I can see that being true, but how many times do people post items for discussion as directly veteran bought that turn out to be fakes or copies? Search the SS forum alone on WAF and you will find numerous threads that show what people say are vet purchased items being trashed as fakes or junk. Puzzling to me that people will drop around $1000 USD on one of these knives based on stories and opinions period.
Indeed. How many times do you see stories about KC holders selling their crosses over and over again... Vet buys are just another part of the story when it comes to selling stuff. Of course I belive these dealers when they say that they got items from vets but we don't know. The vet might just be a crafty old man with an eye for a deal who sees that his vet status confers legitimacy on anything he gives the dealer/buyer.
The whole collecting scene works on a knife edge (no pun intended). If this stuff were free we would see a whole lot more effort going into researching these items but the fun of research and the preservation of history gets derailed a lot of the time when money is involved. As you say, dropping 1000US on a knife like this and then finding out that it isn't what the dealer told you is gonna hurt and that's when people start taking up contrary positions which they can't back up with evidence. The dealers do the same because they don't want to end up holding the baby. As Russ pointed out, Ron Weinand has changed his mind on the DJ knife despite the fact that nothing has surfaced in the meantime to warrant such a shift in opinion. This does nothing but leave people who own these knives with no choice but to blindly believe and hope that they will get their money back at some point. What Ron and others who want these knives to be real are effectively doing is creating confusion where there is none.
Dont forget, the longer certain dealers list and sell these, as the same few names have been, the more they automatically become original. the longer the stuff is not flushed, the easier it comes to "prove" that they are real, pointing back to older sales of them, by "prominent" dealers. There are more "worlds" within History, stuff that we know is real, and then a few dealers who are selling and making, fantasy and selling it as genuine, all using each other as provenance..
Indeed and that seems to be what is happening on the WAF thread. Along with Russ and Fred I've said my piece over there but I'm not getting involved in the same old crap. Russ is doing a great job in pushing Weinand for some substance but he won't and can't give it. It's all deflection and vagueness which will help no one except those who either own one of these knives or those hoping to sell one in the future.