Early Hitler Youth knife by SMF Solingen

Joined
Apr 4, 2014
Messages
5
Thanks Received
3
Location
Massachusetts, USA
Hello Folks,

I am new to this forum and admittedly new to collecting as well. Not sure if this is appropriate and I apologize up front if I offend anyone. My Dad was in WW2 in the American Army (1st Infantry - Big Red One). He didn't talk about the war to me. Either it bothered him or he didn't want to subject me to it. Anyway, I have a HJ knife and was wondering if any of you would know its worth. Can't seem to find another one like it online with the inscription SMF SOLINGEN GES.GESCHUTZT. I am attaching pictures. If anyone has any idea of the value I would appreciate it. Thank you. ... Ken

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Looks like you have a good early knife. Did your dad bring this back? I don't know much about the H.J. knife but Russel and others here are really well versed in should comment within a couple of days. Be patient because this forum does not have a lot of traffic sometimes, but the responses you get will be quality and knowledgeable. Welcome to the forum.
 
Thanks Gefolgschaft for the quick reply and thank you for the welcome! Yes sir, my dad brought it home from the war. It makes me feel sad for the young kids that were expected to use it. War is tough for everyone involved. Thanks again.
 
A quick search shows that this maker mark is from Stocker & Co (SMF), Solingen. Great that you have a family item bring back! I would think this maker is also somewhat uncommon. I don't recall seeing many H.J. knives from that maker. A very neat item to have, and as for price since your father brought it back I would say keep it unless you really need funds for some sort of life emergency or situation. Irreplaceable.
 
mkholst said:
...and another one (some don't like him on this forum, by I do and have good experience with him) Wittmann Militaria

Hi Michael,

Both of those dealers sell or have sold the so-called "DJ" knife. Wittmann, as usual, has "DJ" knives for sale despite there being zero verifiable evidence that they are what he says they are and plenty of evidence to the contrary - which he continues to ignore. This is the source of the misgivings about him.
 
A quick search shows that this maker mark is from Stocker & Co (SMF), Solingen. Great that you have a family item bring back! I would think this maker is also somewhat uncommon. I don't recall seeing many HJ knives from that maker. A very neat item to have, and as for price since your father brought it back I would say keep it unless you really need funds for some sort of life emergency or situation. Irreplaceable.

Thanks Gefolgschaft & Michael. I appreciate your help. As far as selling the knife, I would never do that. This is an item that I'll pass down to my son and so on down the line. Just curious about the value. Hearing more about my Dad's involvement in the war (through my cousin) gives me the chills and I will think about his dedication when I bring out his souvenirs. I also have a belt buckle, 2 arm bands and a German customs collar tab. I sent my brother an SA dagger, an infantry badge/pin and 3 arm bands. I will post pictures of the items I still have either later today or tomorrow. Off to get some work done around the house. Supposed to be in the low 70's today!!!! Thanks again to all!!!
 
Hi Garry

I have read several posts about DJ-knives - BDM-knives a.s.o., I myself would never buy any of these knives, as I do not believe they are original, but I will not say that they are "bad". There are some items I call "not original", but only when I am 100% sure, and there are some items that I just call "items that I would not buy", that is the "in between-items". I have seen that you know your HJ-items very well and have a lot of documentation in your Collection, so I have a lot of respect about your knowledge, but I have also seen some members giving comments on basis of "allmost no knowledge", so !!!! everyone can make a mistake, including me

I just do not like to see persons by name put in "bad standing" in this forum because they believe in items that I (and a lot of other) do not like. As a collector i.m.o. you have to thrust yourself and your own feeling - and "with a Little help from my friends". If you have a bad feeling in your stomac about an item - DO NOT BUY. I.m.o. Wittmann is at least af 99% serious dealer, and I do not know any that I would call 100% - Again, you have to have your own oppinion.

That was just my thoughts about the judgement of other persons. As English not is my "own" language I hope that my thoughts will be read in the right way, as i have no intention to start a "vendetta" Agains anyone.

Michael :denmark
 
Hi Michael,

No one is saying that a dealer's complete inventory and his reputation are under suspicion just because he sold a dodgy knife. It's simply the case that a dealer's name is likely to come up in discussion when he is confidently selling something that is considered questionable by many collectors. It is normal to ask "what does he know that we don't"?

There is no mistake on these knives on my part. I (and others) have scoured the period literature looking for even the most fleeting mention of these little knives. There is nothing there but I'm not demanding that people believe me. I'm just offering input that comes from Hitler Youth documents, books, pamphlets, orders and regulations. What I'm asking is that collectors who give these knives a chance should ask the dealer for the same level of proof. Some of us have in the past and the silence is usually deafening. I am not against dealers, I am for history and I think it a little unfair to blame this forum for dealers' hurt feelings. They are just as able to ask a question on a forum as everyone else.
 
Ken, I would think around 500 to 600 USD would be a good insurance value for the knife. Wittmanns prices are extremely high for his knives. Search around and you will see HJ knives offered for a range between couple of hundred dollars and up depending upon condition, and maker. I am happy to hear you plan to keep it. Again welcome to the forum and to the hobby.
 
I.m.o. Wittmann is at least af 99% serious dealer, i have no intention to start a "vendetta" Agains anyone.
Michael
Hi Michael.
Yes opinions, we should all have them, and be allowed to have them. My opinion of this dealer is almost the same as yours, although i would remove one 9, and be left with 9%. Yes thats about it, nothing really to do with the DJ knives he sells, or RPT knives, or any of the other fantasy knives he sells, but rather his derogatory and arrogant way of reinventing documented history to suit the item(s) he is selling. (HJ knife introduced in 1929 ... DJ knife proof of existence because he has married it with a period HJ knife bag? etc usw..and so on forever and ever.. )

You and i can, and always will make mistakes, him as well, thats not what this is about - it is about a total neglect for factual information which is freely available, and instead going straight ahead with arrogant BS fairy tales and changing what is documented for the sake of a sale? INVENT YOUR OWN HISTORY when you cannot even read or understand the original history = Pfui Teufel ! :nono:
NO, sorry, take away the 9 and change it to 3%, that would be MHO about this seller of stories.
 
:yo: Ken,

First of all a very warm welcome to this forum,
the place to be if you are looking for some good solid advice and knowledge.

You have there a fine early era manufactured knife from the maker SMF (with the seated king logo)

As you maybe allready found out yourself, this one is an early era manufactured knife, manufactured between 1933 & 1936.
So we find as characteristiques a rather thin blade, without ricasso, with on the obverse side of the blade a well kept intact motto, and on the reverse side the manufacturers logo (the seated King with underneath the inscription SMF SOLINGEN and the abreviation GES.GESCHUTZT. (short for Gesetzlich geschutzt, meaning as much as today in the States US.patented but this ofcourse for Germany)
The overall condition of the blade apart from some light period wear markings and light staining the blade looks absolutely fine, the only downside I can see is that it seems to me that the tip of the blade has broken off? This will have a downside effect on the prize.
Furthermore, the leather buffer pad is not present.

The black bakelite grip plates are looking fine are well fitted and hold a well preserved HJ diamond inlay.
The hilt and fingerguard looks very nice.
The scabbard, as is in the most cases has losst most of his paint and unfortanetly the leather hanger has suffered a bitt.
Overall a very well preserved knife, value can IMO be estimated currently in the region of 500 to 600 US dollars.

Thx for having sheared this one with us.
definetly a keeper :thumb:
Wizardelf
:belgium
 
:yo: Ken,

First of all a very warm welcome to this forum,
the place to be if you are looking for some good solid advice and knowledge.

You have there a fine early era manufactured knife from the maker SMF (with the seated king logo)

As you maybe allready found out yourself, this one is an early era manufactured knife, manufactured between 1933 & 1936.
So we find as characteristiques a rather thin blade, without ricasso, with on the obverse side of the blade a well kept intact motto, and on the reverse side the manufacturers logo (the seated King with underneath the inscription SMF SOLINGEN and the abreviation GES.GESCHUTZT. (short for Gesetzlich geschutzt, meaning as much as today in the States US.patented but this ofcourse for Germany)
The overall condition of the blade apart from some light period wear markings and light staining the blade looks absolutely fine, the only downside I can see is that it seems to me that the tip of the blade has broken off? This will have a downside effect on the prize.
Furthermore, the leather buffer pad is not present.

The black bakelite grip plates are looking fine are well fitted and hold a well preserved HJ diamond inlay.
The hilt and fingerguard looks very nice.
The scabbard, as is in the most cases has losst most of his paint and unfortanetly the leather hanger has suffered a bitt.
Overall a very well preserved knife, value can IMO be estimated currently in the region of 500 to 600 US dollars.

Thx for having sheared this one with us.
definetly a keeper :thumb:
Wizardelf
:belgium


Wizardelf,

Thanks so much for the kind welcome. I have to say I appreciate the group of people on this forum. All of you are very friendly and extremely knowledgeable. I agree with your assessment regarding the lack of the buffer pad, broken tip and worn scabbard. Had a feeling that these issues would detract form the value. Not an issue with me since I would never sell anyway. Thanks for the information regarding the German patent as well as your overall analysis of the knife. Again, I very much appreciate your friendly demeanor and honest evaluation. Thanks again!:thumbup:

Ken :usa
 
As promised previously, here is a post of other items from Dad. The belt buckle is aluminum with a silver wash, two arm bands and a customs collar tab. Thanks to all!

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Hi
Welcome to this forum you can learn a lot as you see
You got a beatiful uncommon early HJ Knive "DON`T LET IT GO":neth
 
As the others have said, this is fine example of an original, early, HJ knife. If it was brought back by your dad, its priceless!

Regards


Russ
 
Very nice early knive, with a nice etched motto!
In europe, a knive in this shape would do 400-475 euro's. (with bufferpad)
A vet bringback story attached, makes it in my ipinion priceless.

If you didn't know it: Do NOT clean it!

Regards.
 
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