The HJ knife diamond - should it wiggle or not?

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I've read and heard stories from quite a few collectors about how they shake an HJ knife to see and hear if the diamond rattles or moves. If it doesn't move, they put it back down and move on, thinking the knife to be a reproduction. It is quite possible that people who do this could well be turning down a legitimate piece, because there is no rattle or movement. Some diamonds are very loose and rattle around, some have small movement, maybe from side to side or end to end, and others may have no movement at all. Whether there is movement or not on an original usually depends on how well the diamond has been fixed to the grip plate, and also whether or not the cutout on the plate which receives the diamond is a close and snug fit. Sometimes the work is sloppy in these areas, other times very well done.

I x-rayed a couple of knives which show how HJ diamonds are fixed. The diamond has two long thin prongs which go through a slit in the plate, and are bent under to hold it in place. The first one shown here is poorly fitted, which you can easily see, causing the diamond to be very loose, springy when pushed and rattley (see how it protrudes slightly from the top of the grip plate, and is not seated on the bottom of the cutout). This one is from a later manufactured RZM marked knife.

The second x-ray shows another diamond that has no noticeable movement at all. The cutout is snug, preventing the diamond any sideways or end to end movement. The diamond sits well on the bottom of the plate and the pins are bent well around the plate allowing no spring-like movement when pushed, but this is a genuine HJ knife, early manufacture with motto.

If I come across an HJ knife with a no-movement diamond, I just look more closely at everything else. A diamond that doesn't move should not be taken as a sole determining factor when checking for authenticity, but as an indicator to scrutinise all the other details of the knife carefully. Check for signs of glue, damage to the rivets or on the plates immediately around the rivets. If these and all other details appear correct for an original, you may avoid passing up a genuine knife.

Regards

Russ

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This is something that amazes me too Russ. It's one of those old stories that seems to have gained credibility because it's repeated enough times on forums. Impossible to argue with the great evidence you present in my opinion. Great info/research and thanks for posting it.
 
Hi Russ
Out of the 6 HJ knifes i have 2wriggle 4 dont, , thanks for the info ,
carrying out xray is a great way of determining whats going on.

Over to you mike have you got a spare evening to check all yours out:D

cheers steve
 
i'd put money on more solid diamonds than getting down and wiggling, but the statement that it must wiggle is definitley out there, at the war and peace show this year i sold a few of my hjs and gave some little lectures to prospective buyers, most had no clue, no previous hjs or they described what could most likely be very dubious repros.... nearly all looked stunned when i said dont not buy one because the diamond is solid... one guy even came back the next day and said a dealer had told him there were on springs and i was wrong....

classic....well more for us eh
 
The diamond is on springs :huh:
Who the Hell would believe that :laugh:

Someone who's on something else! :001_tongue:

I wonder who the 'dealer' was? He must have some interesting stuff for sale!

Regards

Russ
 
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I was amazed by the x-ray thing. I would say that the best test would be to x-ray a fake one as well and see how the diamond is fixed.
 
its funny how quick a comment can become fact with forums,its everywhere if the diamond does not wiggle it must be fake lol, the facts are when these daggers where put together some where done better than others and some have had an easier life than others, all this adds to if the diamond will wiggle or not
wonder who originally came up with this brainwave
stu
 
i would not trash the theory all at once. Maybe it is a urban legend but it has some truth. For instance, if the fake knives had the diamond soldered/glued or with a single screw inside the handle, they would not wiggle like the good ones with 2 prongs.
Just thinking loud, food for thought for the knife guys out there
 
So you mean:
a solid diamond could be fake
a wiggly diamond has more change to be good

Thats reasonable I think

Of cause the diamond is only one detail of the whole thing...
 
hi
nobody is saying that it is not a helpful guide to spotting a fake, but what we are saying is that if the diamond does not wiggle does not mean its definetly a fake there are many other factors to take in to account
 
This thread is great, I've learned a few new things here. Thanks for sharing the knowledge and experience, I'm slowly getting better at spotting fakes. Took one look at the one just posted on WAF and suspected it had problems straight away.
 
Hi Ray
I only had 1 HJ knife in my life and the diamond wiggles :laugh:
I also have a smaller knife (much debated) I bought for few bucks and that I use as letter opener (very stilish...) and guess what, the diamond does not wiggle
 
number of letters ive opened with hj knives because theyve been more at hand than my leatherman....


HJs.... collectable yet still functional in everyday society :LOL:
 
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Good to see this is generating some input and I hope it will prove useful next time you see an HJ with a no-movement diamond. Always examine the whole piece - not just one or two aspects. If the red flags start mounting up - I'd pass on it.

Regards

Russ
 
Up until recently, I had a beautiful early (no ricasso) HJ knife by Anton Wingen Jr. The bake-lite grips must have gotten a little too warm at one time and shrunk a little. The HJ diamond was locked solid. The fellow that bought it from me was concerned about the non-wiggle effect. He's OK now, I had him read this thread .. :thumbup:
 
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