HJ knife RZM M 7/29 Klittermann & Moog dated 1941

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Hello everybody,
I am new in the forum and this is my first post. First of all, sorry for my English because It is not my mother tongue and probably I will make some mistakes, but I will try to do my best.

I have this HJ knive with RZM M 7/29-1941 mark, from Klittermann&Moog as indicated in the blade, and I want to have your opiniones as experts about this piece, It's a common piece or difficult to find?, what about the condition of the piece, I think It is in very good condition, but I'm not an expert in this kind of pieces. what about It,s valué in the colectora market?

Thank you very much for any information you can provide on this topic

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Hi Avenox, welcome to the forum!

Your English is very good!

You have a nice original knife, nice maker mark to have if you are collecting different makers.

It may be the pic, but it looks like one of the rivets may have been replaced, or is damaged.

The grip plates appear to be well fitted, with a great diamond.

Regarding value, it's really what anyone wants to pay on the day, and you'll get different values from different people. To me, the maker mark wouldn't add too much value but that is just my opinion. Some collect transitional knives and this may fill a gap in someone's collection.

Regards

Russ
 
Agreed.
Very nice but a little restoration needs to be done here.
Grip Rivet and the blade.
It can be done if you now what you are doing.
This one is easy to restore back to its former glory.
I would have this in my collection no problem.
 
Hi Avenox,
nice transitional piece. the makersmark (not the RZM) is well present; Most of the time with this maker the marking is poorly applied on the blade.
In regards to the prize I guess the more rational dealers would put a prize on it at around
$ 600 US for it, for it shows some issues; pitting of the blade and it looks like the blade has some small nicks....? can't realy make out on the pics. One the rivets seems to be a replacement? The leather of the sheath is not in the best state and some of the black paint is gone. That is what I can make out, based on the pics you've posted here.

So all in all a very nice catch, one I would gladly include into my collection.
Well done
wizardelf
:belgium
 
Good evening everybody,
Thank you very much for all your valuable answers
The knive has one rivet probably replaced and some pitting on the blade, I'm attaching some more detailed pics, but I will keep it like this because I have no idea how to restore it, and I like how it looks like as an object with a lot of history behind

I have a question, maybe very obvious for you, but not for me as a beginner collector of HJ objects, why this knive is considered a "transitional knive"?. I have read that early knives (until 1938) had the words "Blut und Ehre!" in the blade, and mine have not this words as It's a 1941 model, is this the only reason for being called a transitional knive?

Once again, thank you very much for all your contributions

Best regards

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Avenox,

In short and too keep things simple transitional knives were made between 1936 and 1938 (in general) we consider a knife as transitional when both the RZM designation and the makers mark are present, with the earlier pieces the motto; "Blut und Ehre " is also present on the blade.
As from 1936 the Reichsministerium implemented that the manufacturers should indicate the RZM marking (for Klitterman & Moog this was M7 / 29. But since a lott of the manufacturers still had a pile of allready made blades with only the manufacturers sign on it (for Klitterman & Moog the circle with inside the arm and Arrow design ) they were allowed to further add the RZM code during a period of transition up untill 1938 and thus we do encounter blades with double markings.
As you'll notice your knife is from 1941.
Yes there are some exceptions to this rule, Eickhorn for one is also such an exception throughout the years they continued to have double markings.
Hope this shead some light to the term "transitional"

By the way some collectors as myself do collect only transitionals, because they are more rare just because of the limited productionperiod and are as such for some, not all collectors more desirable and of more value.

wizardelf
:belgium
 
Thank you Wizardelf for your magnific clarification of the term "transitional"
now I understand it perfectly

Best regards!
 
Thanks for the extra pics!

As the Elf has noted, some collect varying configurations of these knives, and like to attach a rarity value to them. Transitional knives are a good area because there are so many to try and find, particularly with a motto as well.

All are collectable in their own right, and this is what makes collecting interesting to all of us, finding the 'area' you like, and then start trying to find them to build your collection.

In my opinion, the 'rarest' HJ knives are the ones with a motto and RZM mark only.

Regards

Russ
 
Thanks wingman15!
i'm very proud of my knife, and thanks to you all I know now more things about it

Regards
 
Sorry guys, by now this is the unique HJ piece I have, I still have not a collection😥
I have one knive with some similarities with the HJ knives, and I will post for your opinion shortly. It's a knive with a Lys flower in the diamond

Beat regards!
 
Avenox get your HJ knife restored.
Its an easy one to do mate and if done right only you would know.
I would do it myself if it was mine.:001_tongue:
 
Hello everybody,

This is the knife with the Lys flower. I don't know anything about it, does anybody could give some information?

Thank you and best regards!
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Hello Avenox

Your knife has nothing to do with Hitler Jugend - it is a post war scout knife.

Michael
 
Yes, post war knife.

Often you will see knives such as this one with an HJ diamond added, paired with a genuine scabbard.

The maker of this piece is not a known maker of genuine HJ knives.

With your permission, I would like to add this maker to the Fakes thread.

Regards

Russ
 
Dear RusellM,
I can't enter the Fakes thread, but I have no problem if you want to add it to that thread.
In my opinion it's not really a fake, as it does not pretend to copy an HJ knife, as the blade and other elements as the diamond or the scabbard are completely different, I think it's just a post war knife with a HJ inspiration

Thank you all, and best regards!
 
Thanks Avenox.

In its 'original' form, it is not a fake as you say, however there are examples of this knife with an HJ diamond added that would fool some people, particularly if they haven't done any research on the subject.

Regards

Russ
 
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