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  1. #1

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    HJ knives – shape of blade

    The other day I was just sitting and looking on my HJ knives, and I found out, than the blades have different shapes/thickness. I have never thought of that before. Except of course that early type is without ricasso, and mid- and late types is with ricasso

    I have only 4 pieces, but I think that there maybe is at pattern in it. I have made a drawing of the 3 different shapes, and have numbered them with the same numbers as the knives.

    No 1. Is an early HJ knife: Only company name + Blut und ehre + no ricasso
    No 2 is a middle period one: Company name + RZM marked + Blut und ehre
    No 3+4 is late ones: RZM marked
    No 1 has a relatively thin blade without ricasso
    No 2 has a bit thicker blade with ricasso, but the ricasso is thicker than the back of the blade
    No 3+4 has a bit thicker blade, and the back of the blade is as thick as the ricasso.

    e.jpg

    No. 1
    a 1.jpga 2.jpg

    No. 2
    b 1.jpgb 2.jpg

    No. 3
    c 1.jpgc 2.jpg

    No. 4
    d 1.jpgd 2.jpg

    I hope that some of you guys want to examine your pieces, so we can see if there are any base in my assumptions, or if it is only coincidence.

    Michael
    Mod edit: Title changed from "knifes" to knives.


  2. #2
    Interesting study. I wonder if different manufacturers used different blade thicknesses when making the knives. Is there anything in the regulations that calls out blade thickness?

  3. #3
    Hi Michael,

    The width and height of the ricasso are given as 6mm and 10mm respectively by the RZM in 1936. The 1933/4 regulation for the early pre-ricasso knives does not give a dimension for the thickness of the blade at that point. I would think, due to the way the blades were made, that there will be slight variations in the thickness of the blades and the ricasso height. I just measured my battered early Puma and although it shouldn't have one, there is a "ricasso" with a height and width of of 1.5mm and 5mm respectively. I think that this was due simply to a slightly incorrect positioning of the blade in the press. Your pic "No1" shows how my knife was probably meant to look.

    Here's mine:

    knii.jpg

  4. #4
    Great observations guys.

  5. #5

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    Hi Garry

    Thanks for sharing info from the regulations, it is there the truth is to be found

    The ricasso's on all 3 pieces are exactly 6 x 10 mm, and all 3 are from different makers.
    Here is a close-up pic of them:
    r.jpg

    I have seen your type of blade (with the mini-ricasso) before, so I do not think it is incorrect position in the press, but just a variant of the normal blade showed on pic of my No. 1.

    Michael

  6. #6

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    Hi Garry

    I just now discovered that the leather washer is missing on your knife, and that is why you can see the mini-ricasso. If the leather washer have been there, you would not have seen it. It must be on knifes without leather washer I have seen the mini-ricasso" before

    See enclosed pic of one like yours but with leather washer:

    h.jpg

    Michael

  7. #7
    You're right of course Michael. The leather on mine was missing when I bought it and I've got so used to seeing it like that that I forgot about the washer

  8. #8

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    Very Very interesting thread. I have an early and a late Gottlieb Hammesfahr (M7 /67) and the blade of the late one is definetely thicker. thread. I have an early and a late Gottlieb Hammesfahr (M7 /67) and the blade of the late one is definetely thicker.

    HJs.jpg

  9. #9
    According to the source I mentioned a little further up the page, the reason for the introduction of the ricasso was to improve blade strength. I'm guessing that there had been complaints about some knife blades snapping off under heavy use.

  10. #10

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    Hi Eliko

    As I see it, your late type knife has a shape like 3+4 on the drawing in post 1 - correct ??

    Hi Garry

    I think that you are quite right about your guess, that some of the first type blades have broken. The first type bade is only 2½-3 mm thick and the type 3+4 blade is about 5 mm thick measured on the back of blade just below the ricasso.

    AND TO ALL YOU MEMBERS OF THIS FORUM WITH A KNIFE IN YOUR COLLECTION - LET ME HEAR YOUR OPINION.

    Michael

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