It's shameful to see those knives listed with descriptions like that. Terrible that someone is going to be taken for an expensive ride if they buy any of that stuff.
These people DO NOT ANSWER questions, they will NEVER engage in any form of debate whatsoever, except to lie, and fabricate stories like Craig Gottlieb did on the SA Birdshead dagger thrad at WAF. They know full well that they sell crap, and they know full well what would happen to them if they joined a forum.... (Gottlieb is registered here, but do you think he will post and say HEY, YOU CALLED ME A LIER, DELETE THIS POST NOW... no he will not, because he knows what would happen, and above all, he knows that he lies!)Has anybody ever challenged TW to fact that these DJ Knifes are Bogus & he is selling them for mega $$$$$ for many years ?
This is FRAUD IMO
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Russ, do you know whether the later volumes of the Johnson book correct any of the stuff he is saying here in volume one? Or is this the only volume to deal with Hitler Youth items?
This one, and no, there is only the normal HJ knife in this one. Unless of course, Weinlands is once again referring to the special catalog that only he and a selected few USA dealers were privileged to view before it was lost forever. Possibly a prototype catalog that was only printed once.R Weinand mentioned a Klaas catalogue on the WAF thread but didn't actually show it. I wonder if that actually exists?
Mate, i was not working at House of Swords, so cant say. BUT, knowing that they were professional Forgers of blades and swords, daggers of all kinds, not just replica stuff, but inventing fantasy stuff too, and LOTS OF IT... i wouldn't be surprised if they were making them. A camping knife? but we have books about the normal Jugend, before the HJ, and during, the Stahlem Jugend, camps, lagerplätze..hunting etc etc...we also have many dagger catalogs to look through, originals as well as reprints for many many blade makers.... and? no photo, no mention, no nothing. Not forgetting that during the later stages, post 1935-1936 i would think, as Wim already stated somewhere, a direct copy of the HJ-Fahrtenmesser, albeit without insignia, would never have been allowed.House of Swords had the basic camping knife (if indeed that's what it is) in their catalogues in the 70s and 80s as a 'DJ and BDM' knife so I'm wondering where they were sourcing them from.
Yeah I know you didn't work there and I agree with the rest of what you said Don't misconstrue my questions as an attempt to prove Johnson et al right or as an attempt to legitimise the knife mate. I don't believe any of the stories but the wiki page is impartial and needs to explore every aspect of these knives. To that end we need to look at what the dealers, authors, owners etc say so that we can examine each statement with a view to showing that they are wrong and indeed whether they are right on some points. Know what I mean?
I do have this 1938 version catalogue (just a b/w copy). There is only one article-number Nr. 203 for Fahrtenmesser für HJ. und DJ.
on page 13. On page 15 the price-list mentions "Original HJ.-Fahrtenmesser" for 3.- RM.
There is a BUT:
I even doubt the cataloque shown is an original one, as it was reprinted in bigger quantities, I thought in the seventies.
A far as I remember and as Weinand says: the cataloque I bought was neither attached to the red binding.
I paid about ten guilders for this reprint in those days (my beginning days of collecting)! I gave the reprint-cataloque to a friend,
many years ago!
By the way: in about April 1933 knives were offered in various forms for scouting and youth-organizations.
Here is a copy of a page from a list of materials offered to those boys! And what is NOT included at all: a Fahrtenmesser for HJ/DJ!!
You don't have permission to view attachments.
I know edzackery what you mean, and i agree. Although for the layman, not much else is needed except common sense.
Once you have seen what these critters are happy to PRINT ! i.E: These were authorized.... and then take all the examples of crap, plain crap stuff, and it all traces back to one of these people, with the age old He has a photo but cant find it, he has a catalog but cant find it... OK if that info was coming from a reputable researcher, but these people are not researchers, they are the people who LIE, the people who print that there were Official Orders for something, but forget to mention that there actually was never an order, and that when they write there was, they are in fact just stringing words together that should never be printed without any footnotes.
By official orders i mean "These were authorized" because for something to be "Authorized" there must be an official Order, a letter or mention from a NSDAP top-wig, saying that said item was now "Authorized" or at the very least, mentioning it.
Lets take this one step further, and go back again, to the Birdshgead daggers, which it was also said, and even published by the twins, that there is, quote, An original Eickhorn period, Factory document, proving the existence of these ultra-rare daggers. And when, FINALLY, the whole image was published online, this Period, factory document - that was shown in-print - was what? see image. ha ha ha ha. So you see, even when these people really do, have period evidence, the PROOF that they use to base their whole story on, it turns out to be a joke..a bad joke.
Image one is the In-print twins version, read the description, and image two, is the full image..... so you see.
edit: Thanks Wim, yes there are in-wear photographs of these kinds of knives being worn, they do not look like the BDM/DJ knives though
I can only speak as a novice collector, but I have many, many expensive and original BDM books and photos in my possession and am actively collecting more, I have not seen one, not one photo of a girl from the TR period, BDM or related, wearing or carrying a knife. I am somewhat disappointed, a I have bought one for no small fee.......
That is because Girls were NEVER "tooled up" during the Third Reich, neither before Hitler came to power nor after. The only period that i could invisage a Girl carrying a knife, or weapon, in Germany, would be towards the very end days of the Reich, when it was pretty much every man for himself. But at no time were any Girls organizations given weapons.I can only speak as a novice collector, but I have many, many expensive and original BDM books and photos in my possession and am actively collecting more, I have not seen one, not one photo of a girl from the TR period, BDM or related, wearing or carrying a knife. I am somewhat disappointed, a I have bought one for no small fee.......
I would reckon that IF you have bought one from these guys, then you are stuck with it, and thats the price paid for believing the story and believing the reputation before researching. Because ANYBODY who truly did a small amount of research into this topic, would soon find out that what is printed as truth, is hocus-pokus! We have all been there, all been burnt, and 99,9% of the time have to suck it up and write the money off as "Lehrgeld"
Has anybody seen the bagged "DJ" knife on TW site ..?