Let's talk about Olympic Hitler Youth and 1935 Reichsparteitag daggers

With many thanks to Jo for uncovering this pile of rubbish, note the bag marked Olympiade Berlin 1936 is marked M4/46.

Knives came under the RZM designation M7, not M4, which I believe is for Buckles.

Will be interesting to see how the sellers of these Olympic knives can explain away that one...

No doubt we'll see a bag for the "DJ" knife and the "BDM" knife sometime soon...

Regards

Russ

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With many thanks to Jo for uncovering this pile of rubbish, note the bag marked Olympiade Berlin 1936 is marked M4/46.

Knives came under the RZM designation M7, not M4, which I believe is for Buckles.

Will be interesting to see how the sellers of these Olympic knives can explain away that one...

No doubt we'll see a bag for the "DJ" knife and the "BDM" knife sometime soon...

Regards

Russ
No need, just crush the bag a few times, take a scalpel blade to the M4/ and gently disfigure so it looks like M/7.
If Thomas Wittman can get away with showing a bag that says HITLERJUGEND, and claiming it definitive proof that the DJ had there their own knife.:first:.. then anything goes.
Besides, when did anyone have to explain anything? Don`t you know that: "I have a photo from the early 1990s that was taken at a show in Germany, showing a box of these knives" is MORE than enough "evidence"?

Personally i would go for the SA dolch bag, at least it says ORIGINAL :swiss
 
Now Gottlieb is getting in on the party day "souvenir" knife action.

"Souvenir knife from the 1935 Reichs Party Rally at Nuernberg. The overall length including the scabbard is about 8.25 inches, with the blade length being about 4.5 inches. The design is similar to a scaled down Hitler Youth Fahrtenmesser but with a stag, or wood simulated stag, grip. The blade retains its original cross graining, and features an etched eagle and swastika, the wording 'Reichsparteitag Nuernberg 1935' and the Nuernberg city heraldic shield. The lettering and shield are filled in with paint or enamel of gold, black, white, and red. The reverse of the blade is blank. The original wool blade washer is present, and has a moth bite. The nickel plated handle fittings are in excellent condition, with no loss of plating. The steel scabbard retains its factory black enameled finish, and the leather belt loop and handle strap, with Stocko press stud, are still supple. There is a small cut to the leather belt strap on the reverse just above and to the left of the hollow rivet. Also a few surface cracks to the handle strap near the press stud. Otherwise, the piece is in outstanding condition, and is a very scarce example of the many souvenir items that were sold at the rally."

I'm sure that Johnson and Wittman would be happy to vet this if asked :nono:
They keep saying these are "rare" "not often seen" "only a couple left" "all in collections now" Etc etc etc but the knives keep turning up in new condition. That alleged box of them that surfaced at a "show in Germany" must have come in on a forklift or crane methinks. .
 
Well, it is to be expected from this guy. He is just following the words of his mentors Wittmann and Johnson, and keeping the MAX and SOS club members happy. Let`s hope it sells for 5000 USD before shipping... and lets hope that the collector who purchases it, blows his life's savings on it, including his kids college funds. Lets hope he has to sell his wives jewelry as well, his car, the wife's car, the kids toys..... to afford this very scare fantasy item that can be found for sale any day of the week.
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Here is an Ebay seller that seems to have a real knack for finding and selling these "rare" items. Check his feed back, he has sold several in the last 6 months. I think that box that turned up at a show in Germany full of these must have been one of those ocean shipping containers or something.

b3rliner on eBay

b3liner from the ebay sales page said:
This Reichsparteitag Souvenir Knife has the same aluminum hilt as we find on DJ knives. The aluminum has a few mild age stains but barring these is in generally near mint condition throughout. The knife is equipped with stag grip plates. The stag has a nice tone to its grains throughout. The trimmed edges are just starting to take on a slightly golden tone. Having been protected all of these years they do not have the deep golden oxidation that we normally see on a stag grip. The grip plates are retained by aluminum rivets which have dressed heads on both sides. The blade of this knife is etched on the obverse with a crown. The crown are in a gilt-like color. Below this is, “Reichsparteitag 1935”. The blade still has all of its original crossgraining on it and is still bright. This blade is in full mint condition. On the reverse, there is the etch of the pumahead with the firm’s name and location, “Puma Solingen”. The original leather washer is in place. The scabbard shell is a steel tapered type and it is in near mint condition throughout. The paint shows a little minor age in the surfaces. The black leather belt loop is riveted to the scabbard, the rivets showing traces of rust and age. The leather retainer loop is intact and sound. Accompanying this fine knife is the original issue sack. It is of a manila paper having the Puma Solingen name and location printed on the front with the puma around stump logo. Below this is printed the name of the item, “Fahrtenmesser”. Below this in rubber stamping is the type of knife, “Reichs Parteitag 1935”, and below this is a printing indicating that the knife is produced of “good steel”.


This is a great opportunity to own one of the last remaining knives. These knives were found left over in Eastern Germany after the wall went down. There was a large carton of them that was brought into a German show and they were all sold in the middle nineties. Most of these have gone into collections by now so it is rare to see one come up for sale.
Nice piece here!FREE WORLDWIDE SHIPPING WITH DHL, you can contact me for more information and pictures on my email: rugo@live.de

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Here we go again....................
A respected dealer says so, therefore it has to be correct
Wehrmacht-Awards.com Militaria Forums

popskipa on WAF said:
1936 Olympic Games, Hitler Youth knife by Emil Voos with packet of issue.


To quote respected UK Dealer, Andrew Gates: "These beautiful little knives were made by the Emil Voos company for sale as commemorative souvenirs of the 1936 Olympics. There is some controversy around that perhaps they did not exist and have been made since the war. It is some years since these all were found and brought onto the market, perhaps 15 years ago. I was around then, and saw the original packing box that they all came in! It had been stored badly and the top layer and bottom layer of daggers had been affected by the damp. The paper packets were destroyed and the daggers were rusty. Further down into the crate the daggers and packets were better and complete. I purchased for my own collection, one of the very rusty ones with part packet and a couple of the complete ones with no damage. I still have the better one in my collection to this day. All the daggers were identical, apart from one thing. Some had real stag grips, some had imitation stag grips made of wood. I am pleased to be able to offer another one of these very interesting collectables. The dagger itself is mint and un-issued (as they all were). This blade is in mint condition. It has the party day,Olympic etching one one side in gold/black/white. The other side has the Emil Voos logo/trademark. This dagger has real stag grips with the tiny enamel HJ diamond affixed to the grip. The scabbard is the small DJ size and is in mint condition. They all came with little paper bags/packets, and again these were all the same, printed with the Emil Voos details and over stamped in red ink for the BERLINER OLYMPIADE. I think these are super little knives and have thoroughly enjoyed owning my one for all these years. I hope the next owner of this does too".

This is a small Fahrtenmesser or Hitler Youth knife. It is smaller than the usual encountered Hitler Youth knife and was specially produced for a presentation gift to the young people from the National Socialist Youth Organisation, who did so much to help with this the grandest of Olympiads. Unlike its larger cousin this petite dagger has stag grips, while the normal issue one has black plastic grips. Even the enamelled insignia at the middle of the grip is smaller.
The blade is attractive with the crowned bear of the city (Berlin) and the National Socialist sports eagle with Olympic rings. The saying “Zum Ruhme des Sports zur Ehre des Vaterlandes” is reminiscent of the actual spirit of these 1936 games. It means: “The Glory of Sports is the Honour of the Fatherland.” They were produced by the firm of Emil Voos of Solingen.

£695.00

More images on request.

Thank you for looking, Keith

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Looks like Joe saved a guy from getting ripped off on that one. According to the WAF thread he bought it but returned it after Joe and a couple of others outed it as garbage. Good work Joe, Mac 66, and Frogprince.
 
When I search google for "1936 Olympic dagger" and "1935 Reichsparteitag dagger" or the same terms but with "knife" instead of "dagger" I instantly see links on the first results page to hj-research. There is no excuse for people to get caught out. Clearly a quick name drop is sufficient for the discerning dealer of course. They don't need (don't like) Google...
 
Looks like Joe saved a guy from getting ripped off on that one. According to the WAF thread he bought it but returned it after Joe and a couple of others outed it as garbage. Good work Joe, Mac 66, and Frogprince.
Yes he PMed me, saying that he had already bought it, but after reading the thread backed out from the sale.
 
Yes, but staying fair, this auction house is not at fault.
They know sweet FA about Militaria, so have done a quick google search, and found a few positive sales, threads, sites etc.. and just run with that.

What would you do, or me even if we were the auction house? Handling 10 000 different items each auction from heavy 17th century furniture to a silver hair brush from 1965?
Get online, have a quick look, and to our delight, we can support selling the HJ knife as original because we simply found a few other "well known people" who had sold the same, had the same, said the same was original.

No auction house gives a monkeys cuss about "collector satisfaction" or "doing justice to the German people of 1920-1945" - they want money, and commision and fees and so their primary goal is THE SALE.
The people who are to blame for this ad/auction, are the Thomas Johnsons and Wittmann`s and Bob Inkballs.
Hope that makes sense.
 
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