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  1. #11
    Footage and very clear photos of members of the "Jugendehrendienst" working at the Berlin games do not show any sort of knife worn by these kids. Any knife at all. Check my blogsite for clear photos and video of the young members wearing a white Kletterveste type jacket, hose, and mutze. You would think if the knife was a legit item these members would be proudly showing them off??... Yet no knives of any sort seen in different settings of photos of the kids. Things that make you go hmmm.

    Link to the photos and footage.
    HJ and DJ Cloth Insignia: Jugend Ehrendienst Sleeve Triangle

  2. #12

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    Ah, very good Darin, but don't you know that these would have been taken straight home, in out-stretched hands, the paper bag and knife being held tenderly, and with reverence, in a parallel position to the ground to be kept in pristine condition so they could be found and sold decades later to people with no brains?

    Great link!


    Last edited by RussellM; 18th November 2012 at 07:08 AM.

  3. #13

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    Of course, Darin, you are 100% correct in your observations - no souvenir knives visible at all because there weren't any!

    They would most certainly have been worn if they existed.



  4. #14

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    So, let's take this to the next step.

    We have Wittman saying this knife (style) was specifically made for the 1936 Berlin Olympics, then we have the same style turning up the year before in 1935 for the Parteitag with no diamond and a different etch and maker, then we have Weinand saying this knife style with bakelite grip plates with a diamond added to the scabbard was a "well known late war variation" and was worn by the DJ, and is a legitimate piece.

    So which is it guys?

    You need to co-ordinate your stories a little more closely, because you have one basic knife design, three different bullshit purposes and three different time periods.

    No, make that at least four, I forgot about the one with the HJ diamond in the bakelite grip - perhaps that's the BDM one eh?


    Last edited by RussellM; 18th November 2012 at 10:05 AM.

  5. #15
    Russel, this is the product of many decades of going with the flow, and categorizing rubbish into what "could be" and "may be" - to best suit future production/sales of phony items... after a while the theory just becomes accepted - especially if it is in-print.
    Then some clever clogs comes along, (that would be all of us here i guess) and points out the obvious. It`s like telling 100 different fibs to 100 different people, over time you forget who you told what to, and seeing as you have just gone with the flow and thrown theories around the room without consulting basic history first, the story will mutate somewhat, and be adapted to suit time, person and argument, without realizing that you stated the contrary long ago, or that your "claims" are based on the opposite of what history tells you. I guess these old guys have to stick to their story, even though they know that they are wrong, and that history is laughing at them, they cant loose face. And it`s about saving face and making money, not about facts or questions pertaining to the items.

    They dont care about anything other than turning a buck off the weak collector who gathers crumbs from beneath their tables at every show. (and says Thank-You after) And concerning "Helping the collector", for example like we try and do on Forums, when have they ever helped? all they have done is never bothered to learn the history, and shifted crap amongst their little circle of like-minded specialists, making sure that at least 1 of them publish the crap in a future book.

    THINK !!
    Metallwarenfabrik says: "Guys, this HJ badge is real, because i personally know of originals, because it came directly from a returning vet, because this special HJ badge was awarded by HItler to people he liked"
    and the community says? "Nice one, thanks for the info - i`ll pass it on as Gospel" ?? or do they say: "Metallwarenfabrik, can you show us how you reached these assumptions?"

    But, when the Bible-Dagger crew publish the same, nonsensical rubbish, they DO NOT footnote anything, or show any evidence at all, they simply state, THIS WAS FOR... or some other crap that they have conjured up.
    It is exactly the same thing......... no footnotes, no debate, no questioning = 100% PERSONAL OPINION, nothing more, nothing less, and these guys, are WRONG, and have been since day 1. Whether they are all crooks and have been deliberately wrong, i dont know, but judging from the crap they are still peddling as good today, i would say it certainly looks deliberate!

  6. #16

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    So both blades are fake? Somebody please say the words,both blades are fake don't buy them for any reason.

  7. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by operaman View Post
    So both blades are fake....
    You might want to extend that "Both" to include the off-spring like MOUNTAIN-HJ knives...etc...

    I like the way the other forums brush these off as "You either believe or you dont..." whatever happened to simple EDUCATION ? you either believe or you dont could apply to anything and everything... Some lame brains have included all HJ Knives with opaque enamel into the "You either believe or you dont" category along with these? when opaque enamel is about as relevant to a knowledgeable collector pertaining to an items authenticity, as sandpaper is to someone with hemorrhoids !
    Attached Images Attached Images

  8. #18
    I don't believe in the "HJ Leader Fighting Knife" either. Maybe someday someone will prove a lot of us wrong with some tangible evidence like documents or photos, but until that day collector lore is not enough to sway my personal opinion of all these odd "HJ, DJ, BDM" knives.

  9. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Gefolgschaft View Post
    I don't believe in the "HJ Leader Fighting Knife"
    Neither do i. Look at the first SEVEN daggers on Wittmans site... all seven are fantasy... LOL,.. totaling over $11,000.- ha ha ha ha ha..... if you miss any of those seven, Dont worry chums, because as a Dealer once said.. ACHTUNG COLLECTORS, WE NOW HAVE SOME MORE ....

  10. #20
    Wiki pages needed. Will be up in due course


    1936 Olympic Knife

    1935 Reichsparteitag Knife

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