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  1. #111

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    I divorced myself from GDC some time ago. It is Jo Rivett who will keep me away from here.

  2. #112
    Quote Originally Posted by ddsdaggers View Post
    I divorced myself from GDC some time ago. It is Jo Rivett who will keep me away from here.
    Mr. Harris, until now i have never exercised MOD powers, and although i could, i wont. I would like to hear a full explanation from you as to why i have "obviously" rubbed you the wrong way. My research? my in-depth-knowledge that flattens dealers (this includes you) and concentrates on FACTS? My PM to you (and Admin) was clear. Knowledge shocks you - thats clear - people who take time to research and assist, and try to HELP others is shunned by a personal attack? Mr Harris, i wont bow to your jabs, and take your puny one-line BS posts as a compliment . If you had anything of USE to tell us, i am sure you would have by now. DH, i have spent the last 12 months fending off
    greater fish than you, (Hüsken, Winkler, HH etc..) so your post does not aggravate me (personally) in the least, it only proves that you have nothing to "offer" us, and chose to go down the same road as Victorman.
    Dont be surprised if you become a main feature in my future project - it would be "well deserved!"
    Last edited by Jo Rivett; 21st January 2013 at 05:06 PM. Reason: correct GB spelling/grammar.-

  3. #113

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    Good bye.

  4. #114

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    Knowledge backed by fact from research is what makes this forum stand on it`s own . The truth hurts when faced with facts !

  5. #115
    I don't have a problem with heated discussions as long as they are productive. This is a very productive thread so as I say, let's get back to the diamonds. Mr Harris has not responded on this thread or privately for 36 hours or so and we must assume that he will not be taking any further part on the forum. He is however, very welcome to do so if he has information to add or questions for any of the participants on this thread.

  6. #116
    Garry, i suppose that in order to start getting some "usable" research done on these HJ knives with opaque diamonds, it would not be as simple as it was for me with the Party badge, after all, we are not just talking about a simple badge, but also the actual knife.

    The badges themselves should not even be a topic of conversation - i mean whether they are period or not, they are, just of course not all, the same goes for any badge whether it has transparent enamel, or no enamel, made from tin, paper, silver, gold...... and the rest. So the main question would be, is the diamond original to the knife!! To answer this, you will obviously need to have a very good idea of the HJ knife, and how it changed between 1933 and 1942/5. Just like badges and awards, we see the changes through the early transitional years, the RZM years, and the collapse of the Third Reich, this is reflected in the quality, materials used, markings and so on... So once you have this knowledge, you can apply my research on opaque red enamel, and the periods it was used, and see if it fits in with the actual knife.

    The scabbard should never even be a focus point, and does not deserve any place in a discussion about a knife - as such - it is a separate part that could, or could not, be original to the knife. The diamond actually as well, seeing as it is a part that can be replaced, just like the attachment on an award. So Primarily, you would need a VERY GOOD idea of the HJ knife as such, and how it "changed" though its 10 odd- year life span.

    I dont collect knives, so am not bothered where this topic goes really, but the more info we have, surely the better. The Old way of authenticating is wrong, and was borne out of a lack of information as well as too much trust on the part of the collector. If Mr. XX says so, then it`s so. Just like the "If the diamond wiggles - it`s good" But nobody will have anything extra to add about why the diamond could, or could not wiggle.

    We all started out "somewhere" and placed trust in certain people without questioning. It is not the way to progress though, and as we see now in 2013, has not gotten us any wiser on many issues/questions. What do we know? REALLY KNOW.... so many comments like: I have seen over 500 HJ knives, or have 500 in my collection, i know what i am doing... but how many HJ knives were actually made? add that up, minus your 500, and how many have you really seen? 0,02% maybe? Nowhere near a solid foundation for any "with 100% certainly" posts. But sadly this is how experience has, and still is, measured. We need to incorporate modern research into our way of thinking today. Use everything we have, and use facts and history before we turn to someone who has collected and see 500 knives for guidance.

    I am not saying that everything people like Wittmann and Johnson have written about knives is wrong, it surely is not, but it is not based on a solid foundation, and in some cases, the wrong terminology has been used (The DJ knives were authorized.... for example) and collectors have gotten the wrong impression. If we are all agreed that a Vet story must not be the main focus in any debate, then the same must go for anything printed on the matter, anything that is printed with no footnotes, or no evidence, is nothing more that the authors opinion. Maybe sometimes the opinion is right, but all too often it is not.

    So we all, (including myself) need to wake up and turn away from the old, accepted way of saying that something is good or bad without understanding the item. Where does this Opaque red enamel is bad theory spring from? see page 157 of Robin Lumsden`s "1987 - A collectors guide to Third Reich Militaria"

  7. #117
    Like everything if I don't really know what I am talking about then I keep my mouth shut and so it is with this topic except there are details which could come into play here. I have noticed that knives with the late diamond are very scarce actually and no one maker stands out which keeps bringing me back to that great photo somewhere on this forum of the boys throwing their knives into a tree with several stuck in. Make me think that knives with this type of diamond are simply repairs of the period , or is it just to cold here

  8. #118
    Quote Originally Posted by Metallwarenfabrik View Post
    Garry, i suppose that in order to start getting some "usable" research done on these HJ knives with opaque diamonds, it would not be as simple as it was for me with the Party badge, after all, we are not just talking about a simple badge, but also the actual knife.
    Indeed In response to your second paragraph I have started a new thread here.


    Note: those Full Members who haven't read it yet are welcome to visit the HJ Wiki page on the knife here: Hitler Youth Knife.

  9. #119

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jo Rivett
    , The question that this person poses though;

    WHICH MAKERS DURING THE PERIOD HAVE BEEN USING SOLID RED DAIMONDS?
    Hi,

    There are various makers to be found using the solid red/opaque enamel daimonds but they are not an easy knife to find in good unquestionable condition with unmessed with rivets, griplates or daimond so we have to go with what we can find out there amongst collectors/dealers ect, This is the makers we have so far posted on the WAF thread,

    2 x RZM M7/36 E&F Hörster, Solingen
    1 x Daul Marked RZM M7/66 Carl Eickhorn, Solingen
    1 x RZM M7/12 Carl Robert Kaldenbach Solingen
    1 x Unmarked Late Example
    1 x M7/29 Daul marked Klittermann & Moog GmbH, Solingen-Haan
    1 x RZM M7/72 Karl Rob Kaldenbach, Solingen-Grafrath with plastic scabbard hanger.



    Regards Mac 66.

  10. #120

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    Quote Originally Posted by PAUL AYERST View Post
    Like everything if I don't really know what I am talking about then I keep my mouth shut and so it is with this topic except there are details which could come into play here. I have noticed that knives with the late diamond are very scarce actually and no one maker stands out which keeps bringing me back to that great photo somewhere on this forum of the boys throwing their knives into a tree with several stuck in. Make me think that knives with this type of diamond are simply repairs of the period , or is it just to cold here
    Hi Paul,

    You are correct imo about HJ knifes with solid red/opaque daimonds being scarce to find, maybe thats one of the reasons collectors are not 100% sure there genuine,i have been told by a few long dealer/collectors that they are rare to find & only surface once in a blue moon, i do not think they were fitted with the solid red daimonds as a period repair because we see HJ members pins & hat badges in solid red enamel & they were not issued out as repairs ?

    Regards Mac 66.

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