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  1. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by Garry View Post
    These are stunning daggers. I can't help with an assessment as I have nil experience with them but I hope that other more knowledgeable members will see the thread.
    Muchas gracias por tu comentario..Garry
    Saludos
    Palante125

  2. #12

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    Hitler Youth dagger

    I am quoting from Robin Lumsden book Edged weapons of Hitler's Germany page 51 under the heading of The HJ Leaders 1937 Dagger. In 1938 during the highly publicized visit of a Hitler Youth delegation to Japan,some thirty HJ officers wore a special version of the dagger with a plain silver scabbard and white leather hanging straps.A variant was manufactured,possibly for bestowal on HJ generals of the rank of obergebietsführer and above,or upon offerers of the Marine-HJ,to match the gold insignias on there uniforms Production of this elegant führerdolch ceased in October 1942.

    My friend this dagger needs to be in a museum.If I ever become a millionaire I will make an offer. Regards operaman

  3. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by operaman View Post
    I am quoting from Robin Lumsden book Edged weapons of Hitler's Germany page 51 under the heading of The HJ Leaders 1937 Dagger. In 1938 during the highly publicized visit of a Hitler Youth delegation to Japan,some thirty HJ officers wore a special version of the dagger with a plain silver scabbard and white leather hanging straps.A variant was manufactured,possibly for bestowal on HJ generals of the rank of obergebietsführer and above,or upon offerers of the Marine-HJ,to match the gold insignias on there uniforms Production of this elegant führerdolch ceased in October 1942.

    My friend this dagger needs to be in a museum.If I ever become a millionaire I will make an offer. Regards operaman
    Sr. Operaman....Le agradezco el tiempo que me ha dedicado a confirmar lo que yo sabia (regalo viaje Japon) pero lo que no sabia era toda la explicacion que usted me ha dado de mas...Un gran saludo y repito gracias por su tiempo y dedicacion.
    Palante125

    Mr. Operaman .... I appreciate the time I devoted to confirm what I knew (junkets Japan) but I did not know was all the explanation you have given me more ... A big hello and repeat Thanks for your time and dedication.

  4. #14

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    Being new to this Forum, I hate being the bearer of bad news but this particular HJ Leader "variant" is a well know reproduction. These were early Spanish made repros and were fairly well made. There are several errors including the spead-eagled bird on the locket and the wrong ferrule style for a Horster manufactured dagger, angular grip, not to mention the one-piece scabbard. These come up sometimes on sites like eBay and Gunbroker etc. and are often offered as period, unfortunately they are well know copies. There were several version available for these copies including a guilded variation, also offered today as some rare kind on honour version. Here is a couple of images of accepted fakes.

    IMHO, sorry, Red
    Attached Images Attached Images

  5. #15

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    Some more pics....
    Attached Images Attached Images

  6. #16

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    HJ LEADERS DAGGER

    Red,what evidence do you have to support your theory,I have shown that Robin Lundrum has mentioned this dagger in his book.There are copies and fakes of every Third Reich dagger that was produced what makes you think this one is a fake. I think some of the big guns on this forum needs to throw there 2 cents in. Come on Ade, hpl2008. What say ye.

  7. #17

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    operaman, as far as I'm aware no accepted examples of the so-called "Japanese delegation" daggers have ever surfaced. If I remember correctly, Tom Johnson featured a similar dagger with provenance that he featured in one of his volumes, however the one he showed had the correct Horster configuration with the correct tapered grip and right facing locket eagle. He described this example as a prototype, and as far as I know is the only "accepted" version to surface, which is quite different to this one shown.

    The example shown in this thread conforms to known reproductions. The most obvious red flags are the angular grip and the full-frontal eagle. This in itself is condemning as the manufacturers of these copied did not execut the HJ Eagle emblem correctly. If you compare the locket eagles on both manufacturers of these daggers, namely Horster and Eickhorn, you will note the correct use of the HJ emblem, different to the example shown here.

    This repro type also features in Frederick Stephens Reproduction? Recognition! the key reference work in reproduction TR edged weapons. Also, the dedication on the blade makes little sense in the context of an honour dagger "For loyal service in the German Youth"

    I have personally encountered two variants of this reproduction, the one I believe was German made which had a magnetic scabbard, the Spanish copy had a non-ferrous scabbard which was die cast.

    If these were period and original they would very rare and certainly not encountered on on-line auctions etc., not to mention they are fairly plentiful...

    Red

  8. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by operaman View Post
    I have shown that Robin Lundrum has mentioned this dagger in his book..
    Hi operaman, you must mean Robin Lumsden ? there is plenty in his "books" that is plain poppy ****, assumptions and just incorrect, so i would not use anything he writes as Law. (or anything any one person writes for that matter) I guess a good place to discuss this dagger would be the Dagger forum Bound to be ppl there who are clued up to the teeth on these.
    btw, are these very fakes not mentioned in Peter Stahls book (1969) on Fake Nazi militaria? will have to check.

  9. #19

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    HJ dagger

    Thanks Red for the information,someone else said the reference book I had is ''poppy ****"'so I will have to look on line for the Japanese delegation visit presentation daggers or something like that.I will post what I find

  10. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Metallwarenfabrik View Post
    I guess a good place to discuss this dagger would be the Dagger forum Bound to be ppl there who are clued up to the teeth on these.
    I see it already has, and found to be, as Red has stated, a copy.
    â–º DGC link â—„
    Shame really, the rare and wonderful do turn up sometimes.. just not today though.

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