Opinions on Schüttelhofer M7/13 HJ knife

Joined
May 18, 2013
Messages
651
Thanks Received
226
Location
Australia
hi lads just need an opinion on this RZM dagger M7/13 schuttlehoffer,possible trade,.i have a slight concern about the diamond running square with the diamond grip plate,any thoughts on that?? i personally think its ok,though i dont have an in hand inspection.cheers any thoughts on this much appretiated

You don't have permission to view attachments.
You don't have permission to view attachments.
You don't have permission to view attachments.
You don't have permission to view attachments.
You don't have permission to view attachments.
You don't have permission to view attachments.
 

Attachments

    You don't have permission to view attachments.
Hi Wingman15 - By first sight I like the knife, BUT as you mention, the diamond is "straight" with the grip plate checkered - this is NOT normal. The RZM marking is far away from the ricasso, I do'nt like that. Konklusion: I would not buy that knife, BUT better pics needed to make a definitive konclusion.

Michael
 
im getting better pics soon,some close up pics of diamond & RZM mark & also some measurements,.i personally think its a good late war RZM knife,but im not 100% sure yet,thanks michael
 
Some concerns

these are my main concerns,.in the attatched picture's,the diamond looks square to the grip plate diamond pattern,& the diamond being silver,also diamond very large,some damage to grip plate which i have circled,.also are silver diamonds found in origional HJ knives?,i will wait for more detailed photos,.cheers

You don't have permission to view attachments.
You don't have permission to view attachments.
 

Attachments

    You don't have permission to view attachments.
some more pics for opinion

here are some more pics,are silver diamonds more common on late war knives??,.inside of scabbard has no cotton,but metal,i think its a very late war knife,its in great condition which is a little suss,though it does have even wear,.im just not 100% sure yet if its genuine TR era or if its been made up of repro grip plates & diamond,on an origional knife? im still not sure & would love some comments & opinions & a little help on this one lads,ok cheers.si

You don't have permission to view attachments.
You don't have permission to view attachments.
You don't have permission to view attachments.
You don't have permission to view attachments.
You don't have permission to view attachments.
You don't have permission to view attachments.
You don't have permission to view attachments.
 

Attachments

    You don't have permission to view attachments.
Hi Again

Silver on the diamond depends on the wear, on some knifes it all worn off. Cotton inside the scabbard ?, I have 3 HJ-knives, all have cotton inside. Late war ?? - On the pics I can not see a year after the RZM marking, are there any ? I am not sure on this knife, so I would buy another one, they are not rare, so you can easily get another one.

There must be some others knife-guys out on the forum, who can give their opinion.

Michael :denmark
 
thanks michael,yeah im waiting for some knife collectors to give an opinon on its origionallity from the info & pictures i have attatched,its not un-common to see late war knives to have no cotton inside,to my knowledge late war RZM knives especially schuttlehofer M7/13 had the RZM marking & the M7/13 marking only,i think the knife is ok but i need a second opinion from a knife collector before i make my final descision to trade,.cheers mate,i hope someone with some expert knowledge comments on it soon
 
For what it is worth: I'm NOT a knife expert. However, if this is a fake, it's not the usual reproduction one sees pop up from time to time. It seems that the RZM mark is very shallow on the blade--almost as if it were faintly acid etched. That's what causes me some hesitance, but I'm not able to rule that this one is a fake.
 
Hi Again Wingman15

Just looking around I found this thread: "HJ knife M7/2 1937 - original or fake?" from 2nd May 2014, 12:44 PM:

Wizardelf writes in post 4 about the diamond-line: "The outlines of the diamond inlay are parallell to the lines in the black bakelite handgrips, wich is by originals NEVER the case."

I think you should read that thread, there are some good advice about buying suspekt items. :yo:

Michael :denmark
 
Wizardelf writes in post 4 about the diamond-line: "The outlines of the diamond inlay are parallell to the lines in the black bakelite handgrips, wich is by originals NEVER the case."

Hi Michael,

I know that this was once said to be an indicator but understood that it had been revised at some point. Hopefully Wizardelf will add his thoughts.



Hi Wingman,

We do have a number of guys who are particularly good with HJ knives but they don't seem to have been around lately. I guess all we can do is wait.

Edit:

Links to other M7/13 knives (just in case you haven't seen these already):

http://www.hj-research.com/forum/f31/hitler-youth-dagger-hj-m7-13-original-4966/
http://www.hj-research.com/forum/f94/hj-knife-rzm-m7-13-a-6934/
http://www.hj-research.com/forum/f31/hj-knife-fahrtenmesser-m7-13-arthur-schuettelhofer-co-6624/
http://www.hj-research.com/forum/f31/real-deal-opinions-m7-13-hj-knife-5511/
http://www.hj-research.com/forum/f31/hitler-youth-dagger-hj-m7-13-original-4966/
http://www.hj-research.com/forum/f31/opinions-neede-hj-knife-rzm-m7-13-a-5485/
http://www.hj-research.com/forum/f31/my-first-hj-knife-rzm-m7-13-a-1876/
http://www.hj-research.com/forum/f31/my-first-hitler-youth-knife-m7-13-a-2183/
 
Firstly, the diamond lines are not parallel with the grip plate, look carefully and you will see that is correct.

There is nothing wrong with this knife at all - very nice original.

Regards

Russ
 
Glad to see you here again Russ. So is this not true that these parallel cuts mean fake? I have heard this on other forums that they should never be parallel to the edge of the diamond
 
Hi Trommeller,

It's difficult to say 'never' with this sort of thing and I don't consider myself to be an 'expert', if indeed there is such a title for anyone involved with TR items. Even though there are people who do think they are experts, and that their statements are the be all and end all, no question about it, closed case, 100% correct etc...

All I can really offer on this is to thoroughly scrutinise all aspects of the knife and make your own judgement call based on known and accepted facts. Quite often, diamonds do look parallel to the grip pattern with a casual glance, but if looked at carefully, often you will see they are not parallel, as seen with this example here.

I'm not sure where this parallel theory evolved from, but, as with the incorrect 'must have a wiggly diamond' theory, fake knives are most often seen with a parallel diamond and grip configuration, and a fixed diamond, so perhaps it has extended from that.

Regards

Russ
 
Back
Top