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  1. #1

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    Stahlhelm Youth Knife?

    I purchased this HJ look alike at a house sale last year for $2.00, it was covered in rust but had the typical HJ look to it and for the price I had to buy it. I took it home and threw it into the junk pile and left it there for a couple weeks. Late one night I had nothing to do and wondered if it ever had a inscription on it as it had the early style grips on it.
    Imagine my surprise when with some metal cleaner and triple oot steel wool what turned up. I contacted all my HJ collector friends and no one had seen anything like it before. At the last Allentown show I showed a German (from Germany) dealer the knife and he thought it was a Stahlhelm youth knife with the surface applied Stahlhelm youth emblem.
    So I am looking for any information that could conclusively nail the proper idenitification down on this knife.

    Regards

    Jim

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  2. #2

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    HJ Knife

    Looks made up to me,if it were real there would be some record of this style.So I think it is a look alike HJ knife the someone inscribed for themselves.Value ? 20.00 25.00.

  3. #3

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    knife

    i like it but if it 100 % ok i dont know but i have bought it if i have seen it

  4. #4

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    Not heard of a Stahlhelm knife? Anyway looking at the knife itself:

    The grips remind me of early HJ bakelight diamonds seen on some makers

    But the blade has a riccasso so we would say thats later from after 1938

    No maker mark, the grips have obviously been intended for or had a badge of some description, any chance of a photo of reverse grips & rivets

  5. #5

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    Reverse of handle showing rivets

    I would like to point out that I have collected German, US, Japanese, and Russian material for over 50 years.

    The inscription was not visible when I bought the knife because of the rust on the blade.

    I do not believe that this is a national treasure just something that I had never seen before. The German dealer said that he had the exact knife in used condition and I was trying to confirm this.

    Some of the remarks are the reason most of the older collectors do not post their items.

    Regards

    Jim
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  6. #6
    Hi Jim,

    The Scharnhorst Stahlhelm Jugend went over to the HJ effective from the 26th of June 1933 following discussions between von Schirach and the Scharnhorst Bundesführer Schröder on the 23rd of June. With that in mind (and also that the HJ Fahrtenmesser was designed for the HJ and introduced in the same year) I can't see the Scharnhorst Jugend ever having worn a knife like this.

    The contents of the letter which announced that the Scharnhorst was to be amalgamated with the HJ show that an agreement had been reached which permitted the Scharnhorst to continue wearing their uniforms and insignia (with the addition of the HJ armband or DJ sigrune as appropriate). No knife is mentioned.

    The only way I can personally see this knife being period is if a special order for them was placed by the Scharnhorst Stahlhelm Jugend around the time of the above mentioned letter in the expectation that they would be permitted to wear their old uniforms indefinitely (which of course the RJF had no intention of allowing). Long shot in my opinion but not impossible I suppose.

    I'm leaning very strongly towards this being a fantasy but would love to be proven wrong of course. I have only a couple of pictures of the Scharnhorst Jugend but certainly on those they are not wearing knives (either HJ pattern or any other pattern).



    Quote Originally Posted by alpha24 View Post
    ....Some of the remarks are the reason most of the older collectors do not post their items.....
    Can you please explain what you mean by that?

  7. #7

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    HJ Knife

    Out of all the Dagger and Knife collectors that are on this site nobody has said that think it is real.I am sorry but I must agree with them.As I said before this could be a Knife that was engraved to personal order,I don't know if that was even allowed.Anyway I think it's a fantasy item at best

  8. #8
    There is nothing about them in the History of the Stahlhelm/Jungvolk books either, and the pictures showed of the Scharnhorst Jugend all show them wearing no knives.
    I am also leaning towards a fantasy etching, in fact am having to prop myself up otherwise i would have fallen over by now

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by alpha24 View Post
    The German dealer said that he had the exact knife in used condition and I was trying to confirm this.
    Jim
    Jim, there is a guy on WWM forum, called Wilm Saris, not only has he researched the Stahlhelm in great depth, but was himself a Stahlhelm member. If anyone on this planet would know if your item has the slightest chance, or if it could even be considered a "Possible" private buy or private period etching, He would. You could try posting it on that forum, he would surely help you out, and checks the forum every day. he also loves talking and sharing his info on the stahlhelm.

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