Wittmann makes more claims about DJ and Reichsparteitag knives - no proof or evidence offered.

[Garry]

A thread on a knife tag prompted me to visit Wittmann's site and once again he is selling the badgeless "DJ" knife (sometimes known as the "BDM" knife). The subject isn't new but when these knives start appearing again after an absence it is always worth reiterating past discussions. Anyway, over to you Mr Wittmann:

HYK #38203C Late DJ Knife

This Dj Knife would have been one of the last HJ pieces made before the end of the war.

He does not know this to be true. It is pure speculation.

A fine example here, of a type that collectors have had their doubts about for years because of the lack of swastikas. This is, of course, utter nonsense

Utter nonsense? That could be viewed as a euphismism for "No choice... I'm going to have to bluff this". Well, once again, let me call that bluff: if he can prove, using even one single primary source, that it is "nonsense" to disregard his opinion on these knives I, for one, will eat a hat-full of hats. Everything he says about the history and purpose of these knives has been shown to be nothing more than speculation dressed up as fact. He has no proof that these knives are as he describes but nevertheless feels it perfectly okay to state the following on his website (found on 11th of March 2016 in the description of item HYK #36443C Late DJ Knife):

If you are collecting HJ daggers, you certainly need this version of the knife. This is an exceptional example and would fit perfectly into an advanced collection.

A cynical statement designed to misle collectors? The customer must decide but let's go back to 2014 and a comment Wittmann made about the "DJ" knives:

It is my opinion that a DJ knife did not actually exist; after 1942 these knives were produced for use by the entirety of the HJ. Since the war was raging at the time, this style was a low-cost alternative to the standard HJ Knife

Pure speculation based in his mind and not on facts. Late-war but aluminium? DJ knives bad in 2014 but good now in 2016? Come on sir...

In total, he currently (11th of March 2016) has three of these "DJ" knives up for sale and one 1935 Reichsparteitag knife. Other dealers may now be beginning to feel confident about blowing the dust off their knives and getting them back out to eager customers.

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Anyone interested in these knives and the Reichsparteitag knives is welcome to take a look at these threads/article:

Let's talk about Olympic Hitler Youth and 1935 Reichsparteitag daggers

Let's talk about the 'Deutsches Jungvolk knife' and the 'BDM knife'

The Deutsches_Jungvolk_Knife

Deutsche jugend 'messer - Wehrmacht-Awards.com Militaria Forums

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[Gefolgschaft]

Same song and dance from that guy. It's legit because he says it is, no need for regulations, period advertisements, photos, etc when ol Tom can vet it for you! It would be laughable if people did not actually throw money at these things.

 

[RussellM]

Thanks Garry - I've added his full bullshit spiel to the DJ thread.

Regards

Russ

 

[Jo Rivett]

Is it not already documented in the UM and other period sources, exactly when all daggers and knives were no longer made?

 

[Garry]

Is it not already documented in the UM and other period sources, exactly when all daggers and knives were no longer made?

I had a quick look into the 1943 UM Jo but nothing sprang out at me. Possible that I missed it though. Do you remember the year at all? If I have that I could take some time and go through the UM carefully.

 

[Jo Rivett]

It is somewhere.. i had a look myself a while back but struck out.

 

[wilhelm saris]

In the Mitteilungsblatt der RZM from February 20, 1943 it is said that HJ (as well as SA and NSKK) daggers
are not made anymore for the time being. When I find more abot it, I will let you know.

I did check all available issues until late 1944. They never did return the subject!! Nothing is said for knives
(as they were no RZM subject).

 

[Jo Rivett]

It appears at the same time, around the start of 1943, but only as Wim said above, briefly, and not mentioned again. Here is what i was looking for, found in the SuS/UM from the beginning of 1943.
Firmen Nachrichten - "Guns instead of daggers"
Note the word HERSTELLUNGSVERBOT, at the start of 1943. If this verbot was lifted again, then it will need to be mentioned as being lifted.

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edit: The reasons given above, for the "Directive that forbid production of daggers", was the immense saving of steel and other metals. From the start of 1943, over 250 kinds of daggers, knives and swords were no longer manufactured, only Service bayonets, and Nahkampf dolche.
Important here are the words "Laut anordnung" and "Herstellungsverbot".
After early 1943, there was no more HJ knife :swiss

It is no wonder why the Elitist Big Wig Militaria Experts do not visit this forum... they would have a hard time explaining the crap they peddle.

 

[Jo Rivett]

Gary, maybe we could somehow update the HJ Knife Wiki page with this info?

 

[Garry]

Excellent. Many thanks guys. I had heard the year 1943 being mentioned on other forums but never saw any evidence for it. I'll add a new sub-heading to the wiki page Jo and will add the UM info

 

[Jo Rivett]

It is found on page 20 of this May SuS/UM

LINK

 

[wilhelm saris]

For you convenience: here is the short note from the "Mitteilungsblatt der RZM"
from February 20, 1943. The abbreviation z.Z means "zur Zeit" (for this moment).
As menioned earlier they never returned the subject of said that they were
manufactured again!

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Jo's note gives the reason. This information was shown in issue 1/2 from May 31,
1943 in the "Deutsche Uniformen-Zeitschrift" (DUZ, not "Uniformen-Markt"), page 18

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[Jo Rivett]

I believe that the manufacturers of daggers and knives offer the answer themselves.
How fitting an end to the question of the "DJ late war knife" - or any other late-war "knives and daggers"
On the last page, of the last DuZ, from January 1945, there is the following advertisement, from W.K.C Waffenfabrik, offering "daggers and knives of all sorts ..Sobald die Herstellung wieder möglich ist."

So there you go, by January 1945, the early-1943 "Anordnung/Verbot" was still in place
Wittmann definitely is grabbing at really short straws with his DJ late war knife theory, in fact history slaps his face at every turn. Then again he also had a "early theory" a few years ago, claiming the HJ fahrtenmesser dated back to 1931-32. I guess he goes with whatever comes to mind, thinks/hopes his followers will swallow.

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[Garry]

That's a great find Jo. I'll add it to the wiki article in a bit.

I love the smell of proof in the morning. I can't wait to hear Wittmann's new theory on how the "DJ" knife is still "a must for every advanced collection".

 

[crack]

Haha. Great work guys. I just posted a reference to this thread on WAF to spread the good news. How are Wittmann, Weinand etc going to explain their way out of this one I wonder!

 

[Jo Rivett]

How are Wittmann, Weinand etc going to explain their way out of this one I wonder!

The same way they got themselves into this mess, with lies and fables of getting them "directly from returning veterans" which of course, as we all know is utter BS, but a card they love to pull. In fact, its the N°1 trump card that any non-German speaking self-proclaimed expert uses, simply because they cannot research themselves. Even when presented with facts in black and white, they still cannot read them.
Did you notice the arrogant, tear-jerking reply from Ronald Weinlands on the WAF when grilled over them?

RussellM: Just as your assessment of the knife is a little presumptive, it is well known that I am a long time Collector, not a full time dealer only. It amazes me that my postings of my collection over the years has evidently not been obvious to you.

This is what the non-German speaker, who has been selling fakes, as well as shilling for them for decades, uses.. Nothing to do with factual evidence, nothing at all to do with history, nothing about any debate, nothing about anything except his own fat head. His fat ego is supposed to instill calm and assurance among those who he, and his friends, have FLEECED for tens and tens and tens of thousands of dollars over the years on these stupid invented fables of theirs.

All the dealers and people shilling for the DJ knives on the WAF, actually own one! are trying to sell them, or have sold them.

So there is the financial worry. (Refunds or exchanges to the tune of?) Is this not why Detlev Niemann vanished? Because he had to pay back a huge amount?
Seeing as they have listed and sold plenty of these fantasy products, and continue to in 2016, there is no alternative for them BUT to continue with their lies and invented fable.

Then there is the loosing face worry, because if they acknowledged documented historical fact on these DJ knives, that would open up a huge can of worms for them, about the many other "things" they have been "terribly wrong" about.

All that is important, is documented historical fact. We know the HJ/DJ knives were first made no earlier than 1933, we know their production was stopped in early 1943, per Directive, and we know that it never resumed. We know that there was never a separate knife for the DJ. These points are documented in back and white, and can only be refuted (indeed even discussed with any ulterior theory) with more period, documented facts.

The mere fact that Ronald Weinlands and his chums are trying to refute documented fact with a hotel buy fable, or how long they have been collecting and what they have shown on the WAF, is typical Americana-crap. Goofball "self-proclaimed experts" trying badly to reassure their flock that "all`s well", with their sphincters tightening every time a thread like this gets raised from the dead, hoping that another customer wont come knocking for a refund.

Hell, i feel a you tube video coming on here... shame these fact-ignoring turds once and for all.

side note: I looked through the DuZs from Jan-Dec 1944, and found multiple announcements all saying the same thing... "We will deliver daggers and knives as soon as it is possible to produce them again."

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[RussellM]

Three years later, and Ron still hasn't answered the questions posed on the WAF thread...

Regards

Russ

 

[Jo Rivett]

Three years later, and Ron still hasn't answered the questions posed on the WAF thread...

Regards

Russ

The same as Bob Coleman, who posted like crazy on his Emil Maurice thread at WAF, until people started telling him his stuff was fake, then he never returned to answer the 50 posts with questions. What he did do, was to start another thread about it, some years later, on the WRF. On that forum, the good comments once more came floating in and he continued posting about it.

This is how the big wig fake seller works, if you are brown nosing him or his goods, all will be fine and you`ll get a reply from him, when he knows he has been busted, when he knows the "games up" he goes into hiding.. and will let his minions attack you later or let the thread simply die.

 

[Jo Rivett]

Three years later, and Ron still hasn't answered the questions posed on the WAF thread...

Regards

Russ

Russ, i tell you what, its a forum fail. What needs to happen, is that any big wig like Ron Weiand, needs to have some type of inbox message appear, whenever they log into the WAF, thats says:

You need to reply to this thread before you can reply to another post-or post any thing else."

 

[Gefolgschaft]

RonR and Ron Weiand (?Spelling) are different guys I think. RonR is a collector guy that posts items but gets his facts mixed up on occasion. The other Ron is the "I got it in a seedy motel for next to nothing from a vet so it's got to be real" and "I've got a picture of the DJ knife in wear but lost it in my office" guy.