Nice paperwork grouping all from one Hitler Youth member

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Hi All,

I have been lucky enough to get a nice lot from Hermann Mueller, a HJ member from Bann 115. I already got a while ago his 1936 Tinnie with Document:

http://www.hj-research.com/forum/f27/tinnie-document-zeltlager-camp-1936-hessen-nassau-4952/

also the 1935 Document for the Tinnie:

http://www.hj-research.com/forum/f27/1935-zeltlager-tinnie-document-hessen-nassau-4956/#post36561

But now, I got more documents over this guy. So far, I got his DJ Ausweis, HJ Ausweis and also his Driving License, between other documents from him.

Hopefully in a couple of months, I will be able to show you more.

I will be posting more pictures this week of each of the documents. So, so far, a nice group from this “kid”.

Regards

Antonio

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Hi all,

I would like to continue talking about this kid. I have found out many private things about him, even who his father was.

Anyway, I will skip that part and concentrate in the DJ Ausweis that I will show you.

Without any doubt, I will need you help.

So as we see, the guy was born and grew up in Rüsselsheim, in the west of Germany, really close to Wiesbaden (15 Kms), Mainz (15 Kms) and also Darmstadt (24 Kms). So, located in Gebiet 13, Hessen Nassau.

In the first page of the Ausweis, we see the “Oberbann Stamp”. It looks like it says Oberbann 3/13 and under, Starfonburg, but it is really difficult to see. PLEASE HELP (Thanks)

The Ausweis number is the 929438, I guess normal between end of 1933 and begin of 1934.

In the second page, we see the picture of the kid. And 2 stamps (they are the same). It says: Fähnlein 2 (Dord?), Jungbann WIEB II/115. I supposed that WIEB is Wiesbaden, BUT Bann 115 was Darmstadt. Could it be that it was Wiesbaden was an Stamm from Damrstadt? PLEASE HELP (Thanks).

In the third page, we find the typical personal information. The only thing that I can not see properly is the name of the Street. Checking Google maps, I couldn’t find anything similar, or maybe: “An der Festung” (???)

Also, I don’t know who was the Obergebietsführer back then.

The fourth page shows the contributions from 1934 to 1937.

Thanks in advance for your help.

Best Regards

Antonio

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Nice documents Antonio. Here's the info you needed:

Jungbann 2/115 Ried
Oberbann II Starkenburg

There were four '115' Jungbanne at this time: 1/115, 2/115, 3/115 and 4/115 (1/115 was Darmstadt). These extra units were necessary due to the huge influx of boys into the DJ after the 30th of Jan 1933.

Obergebietsführer of Hessen-Nassau at the time this ID was issued was Oberbannführer Walter Kramer according to 'Aufbau, Gliederung und Anschriften der HJ' 1934 but the facsimile signature on the Ausweis is a different name of course and may be Kramer's predecessor.
 
EXCELLENT, EXCELLENT, Thank you very much Garry, I owe you a nice and cold Bier!! Helles oder Weissbier??

Take care

Antonio
 
Ein Helles please Antonio :001_smile:

I'll keep looking though as it would be good to nail the Obergebietsführer name on the ID
 
Hi All,

I continue with another Ausweis, this time the HJ one.

The first page is the typical one; the only big difference with the DJ one is that in this one, the stamp is from the Gebiet and not the Oberbann.

The second page, well, we find here “our man” a bit older. The stamp is from the Gefolgschaft 15/115, and under it says: Rüsselsheim.

The third page is where the personal data appears. Here we see the error made with the Date of Birth (please see the DJ Ausweis) and also where we can see the he joined the Gefolgschaft 25/115. So, could this be also a mistake?

In the fourth page we see all of the contribution stamps. Stops in April 1940, 2 months before he is 18 years old.

And now, again, I need a bit of information.

From 1940 until 1943 there is a “hole” that I hope to fill soon, but in the meantime I would like to explain you what I have. In 1939 he becomes Kameradschaftsführer, I have the info both in the Promotion document (Beförderung) and the Driving License, where there is a supplement with his promotions (Ergänzungsblatt zum Führerschein).

But in 1943 he becomes Scharführer. That means he got 2 promotions in 4 years. Is this normal? In his Suplement page to the Driving Licence (Ergänzungsblatt zum Führerschein) there is a jump between 1940 and 1943, which could be because he joined the RAD or maybe the army, but then come back to the HJ? Is that possible.

Thanks for your help.

Next stop, Driving Licence. Quite interesant.

Regards

Antonio

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The HJ Ausweis is showing that he was assigned to Fähnlein 25/115 when he first entered the Jungvolk in 1933. The stamp over his photo is showing that when he moved up to the HJ aged 14 he was assigned to Gefolgschaft 15/115.

As to the gap 1940-43 would it be possible to see scans of the individual letters Antonio? I see a further promotion to Fähnleinführer at the bottom there if I'm not mistaken. He would normally (at age 18 as he was in 1940) have been enlisted into the RAD for 12 months and after that into the Wehrmacht. During that time his HJ membership would been suspended which enabled suitable individuals to resume that membership at a later date as he did. I'm hoping that a better look at the other documents might help put the pieces together. His promotions fall within a period of change to the HJ rank structure so again, it would be useful to see all documents if you wouldn't mind showing them as individual scans?
 
Hi All!!

Ok Garry, I guess that from now on I will be spending a lot of money in the beers that I will owe you. So there you go.

I am posting pictures of the rest of the documents that I got from this kid.

I will try to explain now about the Führerschein (Driving Licence), but I am sure that you can help me! THANKS IN ADVANCE.

This Driving licence has 2 parts. The Driving license itself and also the Driving Licence Suplement or Extension (Ergänzungsblatt zum Führerschein). This part is just glued to the Driving License and also, one of the pages of this extension is glued on the top of another one, so we can see only part of the information (see the stamps).

The Driving Licence (In Blue) is quite small and contains in the first page the Gebiet (13) and the Bann (115), Meaning Hessen Nassau and Darmstadt.

In the second page we see the Picture (the same as in the HJ Ausweis) and also the Führerschein number and the HJ ID Number (see also the HJ Ausweis to see the match). Also we see the stamp of Bann 115.

We see here already the Extension attached to the Führerschein.

Continuing with the Führerschein, we see the personal details from Hermann and the confirmation that he lived in a street called “An der Festung” (This street is still in Rüsselsheim).

Also in page 3 we can see his promotions

We can see the promotions that he got; we see the Hordenführer and also the Verwaltungskameradschaftsführer (I have also the document which shows this promotion).

In page 4, we can see the list of positions and time the he was in his position between 1935 and 1938. Also we have at the end the location, 39/115, Fähnlein 39, Bann 115??

So far, I will be leaving it to here and I will go on later with the Extension (Ergänzungsblatt zum Führerschein).

Regards

Antonio

PS: Garry, I will pass you tonight the rest of documents, but found the missing Gap. I have the confirmation that he was in the Wehrmacht. Well, Ill show you later.

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Hi all,

Ok, I continue with the Ergänzungsblatt zum Führerschein, which was attached, without doubt in Bann 318, that is Landau, something like 120 Kilometre south Rüsselsheim, the birth place from Hermann).

It contains 4 pages (2 pieces of paper), but pages 3 and 4 war glued to the page 2 in a irregular way, because if was glued on the top of it, so the stamps and a bit of info is missing.

The page 1 is a continuation of the promotions got by Hermann, as you can see, he got the promotion from Verwaltungskameradschaftsführer to Verwaltungsoberkameradschaftsführer in January 1939. Then, he got the Scharführer one in November 1939.

The page 2 is cut, as I said before. But we can see the he got the promotion as Oberscharführer.

As you can see in the Comments (Bermerkungen), it looks like he was Fähnleinführer in 1940 and then from May 1943 and May 1944 he was Jungstammführer.

But in page 3 (attached later, as it looks like), we see the promotion, en November 1943 as Fähnleinführer. Could it be that he was Fähnleinführer but he was also K (Krieg) Jungstammführer too?

In Page 4, we have the “Dienstellung” or position between April and July 1944, as K (Krieg) Hauptsstammführer.

And that is it from this Führerschein.

The most I read “investigate” and discover, the more the fun.

Regards

Antonio

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Hi Garry,

As I promised, I am attaching the rest of documents.

I will be describing them later. There are 3 certificates which show the promotion form Hermann.

But there is another one, quite interesting. The (non signed) letter of reference from his “manager”. As we can see, he was in 1943 part of the Wehrmacht and also working in his “leisure” time in the DJ. BUT in 1944 he “leaves” the Wehrmacht to join the DJ full time.

If you or all of you can find more relevant information, it would be lovely to share it here.

Thanks for everything

Regards

Antonio

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Ah, I was getting confused there Antonio :) I was looking for his driving licence but I think you mean the Führerausweis (Leader ID). Okay, from what I can see his promotions were:

Jungenschaftsführer

1.1.1937 Jungzugführer

30.1.1938 Hordenführer

1.3.1938 - 1.12.1938 Geldverwalter

9.11.1938 Verwaltungskameradschaftsführer

30.1.1939 Verwaltungsoberkameradschaftsführer

9.11.1939 Scharführer

RAD? WH

Returns to service with the HJ

20.4.1943 Oberscharführer

9.11.1943 Fähnleinführer Bann 318

20.3.1944-
1.7.1944 K-Hauptstammführer Bann 318 where he was involved in Wehrertüchtigung.

Great stuff. Always great to see sets of documents like this :thumb: Looks like he survived the war as he doesn't have an entry in the Volksbund database.
 
Hi Garry,

GREAT, thanks for the information.

You are right, I got confused (without alcohol) with the Führerschein and the Führer Ausweis, you are right.

So far, that was the lot, apart from the Certificates of The Tinnies.

I am trying to locate more things and keep it posted.

BUT I have to admit something. It is a great feeling to try to write about these ID’s and documents. To investigate and discover.

THANKS

Regards

Antonio
 
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