Hitler Youth HJ Bugle Inquiry

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Hello,

This is my first post.

I'd like to inquire about the value of what appears to be an authentic Hitler Youth Bugle identical to the one pictured in the link below:

VictoryMilitaria

Given your collective expertise in this area, what do you think the current value of this bugle is today?

Also, can you please tell me some history about this particular Hitler Youth Bugle?

Any information you can provide would be very much appreciated.

Thanks in advance,

Francis

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Hi Francis and welcome to the forum.

In my opinion this bugle is one of the Indian fakes that are said to have appeared in the 1980s. Sloppy eagle without scroll, no carrying rings, bugle looks like it was made yesterday.

As your account now has active status you can check out full-size pics of other bugles on the forum. You'll see a few different types including period photos of different types in use. Clearly you can return to this thread if you'd like to discuss the bugle more.
 
Thank you for your prompt reply Garry -- much appreciated. Assuming this bugle is an Indian fake as you've suggested, can you please tell me what would be its current value? Also, I did try to open the full-size pics but was unable to do so, so what do I need to do in order to open them? Thanks.
 
Hi,

These bugles are described in the HJ period literature I have here in two places: 1934 and 1941 and it is certainly possible to say a few things (for the early bugle a lot of things) about how an early and late regulation bugle should look. Different bugle types were used and this is evident in period photographs but there was a "regulation" type and this is clearly the one that is likely to be considered the most valuable if one were to be found. It would also act as a datum from which to judge other, non-regulation types. The Victory Mil bugle is not from the period in my opinion so as far as value is concerned I would say 40 Euros plus 5 for the eagle. It doesn't look old so I've judged it against the price of a new bog-standard bugle.

The 1941 regulations talk about the requirement for musical units to have only RJF-approved instruments and that if non-regulation instruments were found to have been used during musical competitions, that the formation could be disqualified. Units were to exchange non-regulation instruments where possible and were to obtain RZM versions. It is further stated that in cases where the RZM could not fulfill orders due to the war that units were to obtain instruments locally. However, these instruments had to meet a minimum requirement and this is listed by the regulation. Clearly then, instruments that have survived may include fully-marked RZM bugles and also bugles obtained from local suppliers which may not have had RZM marks. The regulation gives us information with which to judge instruments like the bugle you mentioned and I'm still of the opinion that the Victory Militaria bugle is not a period original. However, that is based on what I see in the pictures. I should ask whether it has any company markings or other stamps on it. What tuning does it have? Out of what metal is it made? Exactly how long is it (in mm)?

The eagle is mentioned only in the later regulation so clearly it is a later addition although I can't say exactly when it was introduced. The order says that the eagle must be "vorschriftsmäßig" (regulation) and there is the first problem because which one of the eagle types we see today is the regulation eagle? My opinion is that the one with the scroll is the regulation type because it can be seen in other period contexts and it is described in the 1941 as a "Bannadler" (Bann eagle). This has a scroll on which the Bann number would be seen. Here is a HJ Bann flag showing the Bann eagle. I started a thread some time ago in the hope that we might find a good photo of a boy playing a bugle that had an eagle but no luck as yet.

I did try to open the full-size pics but was unable to do so, so what do I need to do in order to open them? Thanks.

As you now have an active account you can see full-size pics. All members have to do to maintain an active account is make a useful post at least once every 30 days. If an account goes over that 30-day period without an increase in the post count then it reverts to inactive status and the facility to view full-size pics is lost. To regain it, members must make a new post and the upgrade to "active" is automatic. Members with Gold or Silver subscriptions and senior members (1000+ posts) are exempt from this. A full description of account types is here: New members and members with older accounts who have not posted for a while - Hitler Youth Militaria Collector Forum - Page 2
 
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